Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?

[Sgt. Pepper]

Says the man that just recently was bashing the Catholics.

I'm reposting what I wrote on a similar topic because I think the claim that various Christian denominations agree 99.9% of the time is simply not true.

The truth is that Christianity has many conflicting beliefs that contradict one another, such as conditional salvation vs. unconditional salvation, the proper baptism (sprinkled with water vs. fully immersed), female pastors, and the "end-times" (the rapture, pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation).

Many Christians have the perpetual habit of accusing other Christians of not being "true Christians," and this accusation is as old as Christianity itself (read 1 Corinthians 1:10–17). The problem I have with Christians accusing other Christians of not being true followers of Jesus is that they can never agree on what the Bible truly says, and they constantly argue, insult, and fight one another about what they believe the Bible teaches. The truth is that if you ask the same theological question to a broad group of Christians, you will receive very different answers. All of these Christians will cite the Bible in an attempt to defend their answers, even though their answers are very different and contradictory. I think that it is also worth noting that they don't agree on whether salvation in Jesus Christ is unconditional or not, although they all read the Bible. They have diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, which is defined as Calvinism vs. Arminianism (unconditional salvation vs. conditional salvation). Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is conditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is unconditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Other Christians claim that baptism or speaking in tongues is essential for salvation, and they will provide a few scriptures that they believe support their position. They contradict each other, but they all believe they are right.

Questions about how to properly baptize believers (fully immersed in water or sprinkled with water), whether it is biblical for women to be pastors, and about the alleged end times (pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, and the rapture of Christians) would elicit the same kind of derision among Christians. There are also churches claiming to be the "true church, which implies that Christians in other churches are wrong in their theology and biblical interpretation. They even argue and debate about whether Jesus' mother remained a virgin after giving birth to him or if she had other children after him.

The truth is that Christians are deeply divided, with different churches subscribing to diverse beliefs and readings of the Bible that have emerged in both historical and modern Christianity. Catholics and Protestants have different doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations of the Bible. So do Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Messianic Jews, and Orthodox Christians, which include Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox. There are also Baptists (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist, and others), Methodists, Mennonites, Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Quakers, Anglicans, Nazarenes, and a plethora of other Christian churches that aren't listed here.

Ironically, Christians all believe that they are correct about their beliefs and everyone else (including other Christians) is wrong about theirs, but then they have the audacity to claim that the Bible is the word of God and Christianity is the only true religion in the world. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe any of them. I think it's unreasonable for any Christian to claim that their biblical interpretation and theology are correct while insisting that other Christians are wrong, that the Bible is divinely inspired, and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. It is also irrational, in my opinion, that Christians expect non-Christians to accept the Bible as divinely inspired and the final authority on moral issues, yet they can't agree on what the Bible says.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You seem to do fine without them.

I do not have the conflicting beliefs that Christians have. I have no need for the Bible to be literally true. Errors in the Bible are not a problem that I have to try to deny. Atheism allows for a better understanding of the Bible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes… really. Apparently you don’t understand.

And here we go with the bashing again.

And irrelevant statements.

What bashing? You seem to have small beam in your eye.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Makes me wonder….. why do you hate God so much?

Why do you hate Voldemort so much?

 

[shunyadragon]

Makes me wonder….. why do you hate God so much?

I see no evidence of atheists "hating" a God or Gods they do not believe in.

I do not believe in unicorns and leprechauns, and I surely fo not hate them

It is akin to one "hating math." It is not relevant.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm reposting what I wrote on a similar topic because I think the claim that various Christian denominations agree 99.9% of the time is simply not true.

The truth is that Christianity has many conflicting beliefs that contradict one another, such as conditional salvation vs. unconditional salvation, the proper baptism (sprinkled with water vs. fully immersed), female pastors, and the "end-times" (the rapture, pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation).

Many Christians have the perpetual habit of accusing other Christians of not being "true Christians," and this accusation is as old as Christianity itself (read 1 Corinthians 1:10–17). The problem I have with Christians accusing other Christians of not being true followers of Jesus is that they can never agree on what the Bible truly says, and they constantly argue, insult, and fight one another about what they believe the Bible teaches. The truth is that if you ask the same theological question to a broad group of Christians, you will receive very different answers. All of these Christians will cite the Bible in an attempt to defend their answers, even though their answers are very different and contradictory. I think that it is also worth noting that they don't agree on whether salvation in Jesus Christ is unconditional or not, although they all read the Bible. They have diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, which is defined as Calvinism vs. Arminianism (unconditional salvation vs. conditional salvation). Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is conditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is unconditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Other Christians claim that baptism or speaking in tongues is essential for salvation, and they will provide a few scriptures that they believe support their position. They contradict each other, but they all believe they are right.

Questions about how to properly baptize believers (fully immersed in water or sprinkled with water), whether it is biblical for women to be pastors, and about the alleged end times (pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, and the rapture of Christians) would elicit the same kind of derision among Christians. There are also churches claiming to be the "true church, which implies that Christians in other churches are wrong in their theology and biblical interpretation. They even argue and debate about whether Jesus' mother remained a virgin after giving birth to him or if she had other children after him.

The truth is that Christians are deeply divided, with different churches subscribing to diverse beliefs and readings of the Bible that have emerged in both historical and modern Christianity. Catholics and Protestants have different doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations of the Bible. So do Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Messianic Jews, and Orthodox Christians, which include Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox. There are also Baptists (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist, and others), Methodists, Mennonites, Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Quakers, Anglicans, Nazarenes, and a plethora of other Christian churches that aren't listed here.

Ironically, Christians all believe that they are correct about their beliefs and everyone else (including other Christians) is wrong about theirs, but then they have the audacity to claim that the Bible is the word of God and Christianity is the only true religion in the world. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe any of them. I think it's unreasonable for any Christian to claim that their biblical interpretation and theology are correct while insisting that other Christians are wrong, that the Bible is divinely inspired, and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. It is also irrational, in my opinion, that Christians expect non-Christians to accept the Bible as divinely inspired and the final authority on moral issues, yet they can't agree on what the Bible says.

A great deal of good effort here! @jimb needs to respond to this,

 

[jimb]

I'm reposting what I wrote on a similar topic because I think the claim that various Christian denominations agree 99.9% of the time is simply not true.

The truth is that Christianity has many conflicting beliefs that contradict one another, such as conditional salvation vs. unconditional salvation, the proper baptism (sprinkled with water vs. fully immersed), female pastors, and the "end-times" (the rapture, pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation).

Many Christians have the perpetual habit of accusing other Christians of not being "true Christians," and this accusation is as old as Christianity itself (read 1 Corinthians 1:10–17). The problem I have with Christians accusing other Christians of not being true followers of Jesus is that they can never agree on what the Bible truly says, and they constantly argue, insult, and fight one another about what they believe the Bible teaches. The truth is that if you ask the same theological question to a broad group of Christians, you will receive very different answers. All of these Christians will cite the Bible in an attempt to defend their answers, even though their answers are very different and contradictory. I think that it is also worth noting that they don't agree on whether salvation in Jesus Christ is unconditional or not, although they all read the Bible. They have diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, which is defined as Calvinism vs. Arminianism (unconditional salvation vs. conditional salvation). Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is conditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is unconditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Other Christians claim that baptism or speaking in tongues is essential for salvation, and they will provide a few scriptures that they believe support their position. They contradict each other, but they all believe they are right.

Questions about how to properly baptize believers (fully immersed in water or sprinkled with water), whether it is biblical for women to be pastors, and about the alleged end times (pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, and the rapture of Christians) would elicit the same kind of derision among Christians. There are also churches claiming to be the "true church, which implies that Christians in other churches are wrong in their theology and biblical interpretation. They even argue and debate about whether Jesus' mother remained a virgin after giving birth to him or if she had other children after him.

The truth is that Christians are deeply divided, with different churches subscribing to diverse beliefs and readings of the Bible that have emerged in both historical and modern Christianity. Catholics and Protestants have different doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations of the Bible. So do Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Messianic Jews, and Orthodox Christians, which include Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox. There are also Baptists (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist, and others), Methodists, Mennonites, Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Quakers, Anglicans, Nazarenes, and a plethora of other Christian churches that aren't listed here.

Ironically, Christians all believe that they are correct about their beliefs and everyone else (including other Christians) is wrong about theirs, but then they have the audacity to claim that the Bible is the word of God and Christianity is the only true religion in the world. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe any of them. I think it's unreasonable for any Christian to claim that their biblical interpretation and theology are correct while insisting that other Christians are wrong, that the Bible is divinely inspired, and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. It is also irrational, in my opinion, that Christians expect non-Christians to accept the Bible as divinely inspired and the final authority on moral issues, yet they can't agree on what the Bible says.

All this points out is differences in doctrine. Minor doctrinal differences exist, but Christians are united 100% in this...

Salvation is possible by only one means: accepting that Christ died, paying the penalty for your sins, with the result being that you have eternal life.

 

[shunyadragon]

Clearly, you lack understanding. The various Protestant denominations agree 99.9% of the time. The 0.1% differences are irrelevant.

No they do not. Some Protestant denominations believe in a literal interpretation of the Pentateuch, Some believe in a partial literal interpretation, and some reject any literal interpretation. Many churches for example like the Roman Church. JW and some Baptist Churches believe they re the only true church and their interpretation is the only interpretation.

 

[shunyadragon]

All this points out is differences in doctrine. Minor doctrinal differences exist, but Christians are united 100% in this...

Salvation is possible by only one means: accepting that Christ died, paying the penalty for your sins, with the result being that you have eternal life.

This too superficial a statement considering what the different churches believe, It remains a fact that many of the different churches widely disagree on the interpretation of scripture and believe salvation is only through the beliefs of their church.

For example: The Roman Church (RCC) believes salvation is only through the beliefs and doctrines of the Roman Church, and JW believes the same concerning their church, of course JW asserts they are not a church or religion.

 

[jimb]

No they do not. Some Protestant denominations believe in a literal interpretation of the Pentateuch, Some believe in a partial literal interpretation, and some reject any literal interpretation. Many churches for example like the Roman Church. JW and some Baptist Churches believe they re the only true church and their interpretation is the nly interpretation.

Show me any Christian denomination that disagrees that Jesus Christ is the Savior, and that He died for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm reposting what I wrote on a similar topic because I think the claim that various Christian denominations agree 99.9% of the time is simply not true.

The truth is that Christianity has many conflicting beliefs that contradict one another, such as conditional salvation vs. unconditional salvation, the proper baptism (sprinkled with water vs. fully immersed), female pastors, and the "end-times" (the rapture, pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation).

Many Christians have the perpetual habit of accusing other Christians of not being "true Christians," and this accusation is as old as Christianity itself (read 1 Corinthians 1:10–17). The problem I have with Christians accusing other Christians of not being true followers of Jesus is that they can never agree on what the Bible truly says, and they constantly argue, insult, and fight one another about what they believe the Bible teaches. The truth is that if you ask the same theological question to a broad group of Christians, you will receive very different answers. All of these Christians will cite the Bible in an attempt to defend their answers, even though their answers are very different and contradictory. I think that it is also worth noting that they don't agree on whether salvation in Jesus Christ is unconditional or not, although they all read the Bible. They have diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, which is defined as Calvinism vs. Arminianism (unconditional salvation vs. conditional salvation). Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is conditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Some Christians claim that a person's salvation is unconditional, and they would quote a few scriptures they believed supported their belief. Other Christians claim that baptism or speaking in tongues is essential for salvation, and they will provide a few scriptures that they believe support their position. They contradict each other, but they all believe they are right.

Questions about how to properly baptize believers (fully immersed in water or sprinkled with water), whether it is biblical for women to be pastors, and about the alleged end times (pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, and the rapture of Christians) would elicit the same kind of derision among Christians. There are also churches claiming to be the "true church, which implies that Christians in other churches are wrong in their theology and biblical interpretation. They even argue and debate about whether Jesus' mother remained a virgin after giving birth to him or if she had other children after him.

The truth is that Christians are deeply divided, with different churches subscribing to diverse beliefs and readings of the Bible that have emerged in both historical and modern Christianity. Catholics and Protestants have different doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations of the Bible. So do Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Messianic Jews, and Orthodox Christians, which include Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox. There are also Baptists (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist, and others), Methodists, Mennonites, Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Quakers, Anglicans, Nazarenes, and a plethora of other Christian churches that aren't listed here.

Ironically, Christians all believe that they are correct about their beliefs and everyone else (including other Christians) is wrong about theirs, but then they have the audacity to claim that the Bible is the word of God and Christianity is the only true religion in the world. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe any of them. I think it's unreasonable for any Christian to claim that their biblical interpretation and theology are correct while insisting that other Christians are wrong, that the Bible is divinely inspired, and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. It is also irrational, in my opinion, that Christians expect non-Christians to accept the Bible as divinely inspired and the final authority on moral issues, yet they can't agree on what the Bible says.

I grew up Lutheran, and took care of my mother for the last year of her life. I was her chauffeur, cook, and quite a few other duties. She still went to church almost every Sunday. There was no "do we have to go to church again?". In my childhood days three were no women pastors, so it was a bit of a shock the first time I saw one. But she seemed to do a pretty good job. Didn't even drop the baby once during baptism.

 

[DavidSMoore]

1213 said:

I think the main reason is that Matthew is not speaking of direct family tree, but about the book of the generation of Jesus.

The only reference I found in the entire Bible for the phrase "book of generations" is the following:

This is the book of the generations of Adam. (Genesis 5:1, RSV)

That same passage is translated in the NRSVue as:

This is the list of the descendants of Adam. (Genesis 5:1, NRSVue)

The following passages indeed do list the descendants of Adam-- that is, a family tree. So I'm afraid I don't understand the distinction you've drawn between a family tree and the book of generations. Please explain.

1213 said:

However, it is also possible that people had more than one name. This means that for example there could have been Heli Jacob.

OK, but why would Matthew have listed 28 names from King David to Jesus when Luke listed 41? That's not just a difference of names, but it's a difference of counting. Those additional 13 generations in Luke's genealogy could represent 200 years or so. So it's not just a difference in number, it's a difference in time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No they do not. Some Protestant denominations believe in a literal interpretation of the Pentateuch, Some believe in a partial literal interpretation, and some reject any literal interpretation. Many churches for example like the Roman Church. JW and some Baptist Churches believe they re the only true church and their interpretation is the nly interpretation.

As I just said, I grew up Lutheran. We knew that we had the only right interpretation, but being Norwegian we were just quietly smug about it. After all, not everyone can be born Norwegian!

 

[Soandso]

Those additional 13 generations in Luke's genealogy could represent 200 years or so.

Possibly a lot more, considering how long people supposedly lived for before the days of noah

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not have the conflicting beliefs that Christians have. I have no need for the Bible to be literally true. Errors in the Bible are not a problem that I have to try to deny. Atheism allows for a better understanding of the Bible.

It is obvious to me that some Christians enjoy bragging that they have "spiritual discernment" to properly understand the Bible, whereas non-Christians do not. However, what these Christians seem to forget or ignore is the fact that we (and many other non-Christians) were once devout Christians and are well-versed in the Bible. These non-Christians read it, studied it, and prayed for spiritual guidance when they were Christians, just as I did. We didn't forget what we had learned when we renounced our Christian faith. We maintained this knowledge and are now able to use it to challenge the credibility of the Bible.

I'm not an atheist, but as a former Christian, I refer to what you are saying as "removing the rose-colored glasses." I believe this is what helped me better understand the Bible while I was deconverting from Christianity. It was a genuine reexamination of my beliefs, which eventually led me to renounce my belief and faith in God and abandon my Christian faith. My deconversion gradually began as I was training to be an evangelism team leader and a street preacher. However, my questions and doubts about God, Jesus, and the Bible became more substantial while I was assisting my nephew in obtaining his Master of Theological Studies (MTS) degree in order to become an ordained minister. In fact, our extensive reading and study of the Bible and Christian theology led us both to deconvert from Christianity. During the thirty years I was a devout Christian, I thought that reading and studying the Bible on a daily basis would deepen my Christian faith, but all I did was eventually study my way out of believing in God, Jesus, and the Bible. I genuinely believe that I'm far better off in my life without what I consider to be the entrapment of Christianity. I also believe that it was one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

[DavidSMoore]

Possibly a lot more, considering how long people supposedly lived for before the days of noah

The 13 additional generations were added by Luke between King David and Jesus, so they would all have been after Noah, not before.

 

[Kenny]

Why do you hate Voldemort so much?

Who? Can you quote something I’ve said about him/her?

 

[Kenny]

I see no evidence of atheists "hating" a God or Gods they do not believe in.

I don’t think I said all atheists… can you quote me please? I would love to correct my error.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Wrong. Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and of the line of David.

Matthew 2:6, “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

Matthew 1:1, "This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham".
Matthew 1:17, "Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah."

Even the Pharisees, Jesus' severe critics, knew the truth. "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?” “The son of David,” they replied." Matthew 22:41-42

Why don't you consult the Bible before posting???

What you fail to grasp is that Matthew has no authority to change Jewish law.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

They suffice to show that you have no understanding of the Bible.

That's what I was thinking about you.

the Bible clearly says what it says, if you know how to read it (with God's help).

Of course I know how to read it like any other literate person, and this "God's help" stuff is just another unfalsifiable claim which is contradicted by experience. Believers are all over the place in their beliefs.

Christians are taught by the Holy Spirit, others are not.

Saying things like that doesn't make them true. They are taught by the church, and church teaching includes much not found in scripture.

the Catholic denomination is loaded with all kinds extra-Biblical doctrine

They all are.

Clearly, you lack understanding. The various Protestant denominations agree 99.9% of the time.

Nope. They can't agree whether to worship saints or not, whether to baptise by springkling or immersion, whether th e sabbath is Saturday or Sunday, and more.

Christians are united 100% in this...

Salvation is possible by only one means: accepting that Christ died, paying the penalty for your sins, with the result being that you have eternal life.

That's about all that Christians have in common. They can't agree on whether Jesus was a god or demigod, whether hell is a torture pit or a metaphor for something else, and more.

Incidentally, that's my definition of a Christian - somebody who believes that. There is no behavioral test. Anybody who believes that however horrible a person they are and whatever else they believe ("God hates ****," "You will not replace us") is a Christian.