Is it possible the jews and the Christians worship a different god?

[arcanum]

• I am becoming more and more convinced the more I read from both the old and the new testaments, that they can't be reconciled. You'll especially find these sentiments right there in Paul's writings as well as in the book of John. Paul especially talks about how is previous upbringing as a pharisee was useless to him now compared to the new revelation he received and constantly warned his flock against the judaizers who were trying to get his congregations to put back on the yoke of the law. Paul preached of an unknown god, unknown to both jews and gentiles alike and that the law had come from angles. I don't have the verse right now but there is an excellent presentation on youtube which covers this thoroughly. I don't think he would have a problem with me sharing his video since it's for all to hear on youtube so I'll link it. If it sounds absurd now that's ok I thought so too but keep in mind one thing: in the infancy years of Christianity when the world was Roman, in order for them to survive as a religion they had to prove they were part of an older tradition not something new which the roman's hated and distrusted, new religious cults. They had to show a pedigree, and it was truly actually an outgrowth of Judaism, but it was clearly different, especially as taught by Paul. Maybe the gnostics were right after all, that the god the jews worshiped was not the true god and Jesus was an emissary from the true yet unknown true god above Yehweh? Hersey you say? Sure it is, but look under the hood of early Christianity and do your own research. Cheers

 

[pearl]

in the infancy years of Christianity when the world was Roman, in order for them to survive as a religion they had to prove they were part of an older tradition not something new which the roman's hated and distrusted, new religious cults.

They did not have to 'prove' it, they were Jews who continued attending the synagogue. In the community of John things had come to a head as Jewish Christians were band as heretics. And, yes, Christians were no longer under the umbrella of protection against persecution from the Romans as they enjoyed while affiliated with the Jews.
As for Paul he understands the gentile Christians to be 'grafted', joined, to the 'root' which are the Jews.

 

[Rival]

It is my opinion that they are different. The Christian god differs widely from the Jewish G-d. Notably in how they forgive sin, interaction with mankind and execution of justice.

 

[Sleeppy]

If God is God, all things necessarily and innately worship that absolute authority, irrespective of perspective.

 

[pearl]

The Christian god differs widely from the Jewish G-d. Notably in how they forgive sin,

The God of Israel forgave sin. That was one of the Pharisees' accusations against Jesus, he forgave sin on his own authority.

 

[Rival]

The God of Israel forgave sin. That was one of the Pharisees' accusations against Jesus, he forgave sin on his own authority.

He needed no human sacrifice to do it. Not all sin required a sacrifice to be forgiven. The god of the Christian Testament requires sacrifice for all sin when this is not the case when one reads Leviticus.

 

[arcanum]

The God of the old Testament , or the Tanakh if you prefer, and his expectations from his worshipers is quite different from the message that Jesus taught. So much so that it might as well be a different God, completely different approach on how to live and how to worship God. To put it as simply as possible Judaism is very outer in it's orientation while Christianity in it's essence is very inner. If you believe it's the same God and that God us unchanging as is commonly taught than you might as well follow all of the 613 mitzvot, all the laws proscribed by Yahweh, rather than pick and choose because some are inconvenient. Frankly it deserves a a second look for those who claim to be Christians, the relationship between Christians and Jews is a long and complicated one and your not going to get it with out some very deep diving. Like an archeological dig, there are many layers to it, and you have to often examine apocryphal and gnostics writings to try and uncover what was really going on around the time period of the second temple. The Babylonian captivity changed Judaism forever and some Jews came back with very different teachings, including those regarding the afterlife, which did not exist in pre exile Judaism. Sometime after the return of the exile is when Christianity was born, the book of Daniel is when we start seeing the seeds of the Christian movement.

 

[pearl]

He needed no human sacrifice to do it.

True, but the sins of the people were atoned for through the animal sacrifice offered by the priests?

 

[Rival]

True, but the sins of the people were atoned for through the animal sacrifice offered by the priests?

No. The sacrifices are only for specific types of sins. Not all sins. Also, what sacrifices there were didn't always have to be an animal. Poor families could use grain.

 

[pearl]

The Babylonian captivity changed Judaism forever and some Jews came back with very different teachings,

Yes it did. It all boils down to answering the question, why had God done this to us, what have we done to deserve his abandonment. And they answered this through 'these very different teachings''

Yes, Dan is significant in its highly developed angelology of both rabbinic and early Christian literature and a clear teaching of the resurrection of the dead. But if one is looking for the religious and political environment at the time of Jesus one must consider the intertestamental period.

 

[pearl]

Also, what sacrifices there were didn't always have to be an animal.

True

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

• I am becoming more and more convinced the more I read from both the old and the new testaments, that they can't be reconciled. You'll especially find these sentiments right there in Paul's writings as well as in the book of John. Paul especially talks about how is previous upbringing as a pharisee was useless to him now compared to the new revelation he received and constantly warned his flock against the judaizers who were trying to get his congregations to put back on the yoke of the law. Paul preached of an unknown god, unknown to both jews and gentiles alike and that the law had come from angles. I don't have the verse right now but there is an excellent presentation on youtube which covers this thoroughly. I don't think he would have a problem with me sharing his video since it's for all to hear on youtube so I'll link it. If it sounds absurd now that's ok I thought so too but keep in mind one thing: in the infancy years of Christianity when the world was Roman, in order for them to survive as a religion they had to prove they were part of an older tradition not something new which the roman's hated and distrusted, new religious cults. They had to show a pedigree, and it was truly actually an outgrowth of Judaism, but it was clearly different, especially as taught by Paul. Maybe the gnostics were right after all, that the god the jews worshiped was not the true god and Jesus was an emissary from the true yet unknown true god above Yehweh? Hersey you say? Sure it is, but look under the hood of early Christianity and do your own research. Cheers

Yes they worship a different god because the God of Judaism would never turn into a man. YOu would never be able to kill the God of Judaism nor would he ever demand you worship himself but in the form of man.

 

[George-ananda]

Is it possible the jews and the Christians worship a different god?

I'll go with a 'No' answer. Jesus was a Jew and said not a thing about a different God. God is not something people can not understand so differences in understanding should be expected.

 

[crowfeather]

People don't know what God is, and can't decide what God should be.
That they should even imagine they could have any say in this, reveals their utter lack of humility.
Humans worship idols. Period.

 

[arcanum]

Yes they worship a different god because the God of Judaism would never turn into a man. YOu would never be able to kill the God of Judaism nor would he ever demand you worship himself but in the form of man.

And Jesus said I demand you worship me because I am god in the form of a man...oh wait, he never said that.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

If God is God, all things necessarily and innately worship that absolute authority, irrespective of perspective.

Checkmate.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

• I am becoming more and more convinced the more I read from both the old and the new testaments, that they can't be reconciled. You'll especially find these sentiments right there in Paul's writings as well as in the book of John. Paul especially talks about how is previous upbringing as a pharisee was useless to him now compared to the new revelation he received and constantly warned his flock against the judaizers who were trying to get his congregations to put back on the yoke of the law. Paul preached of an unknown god, unknown to both jews and gentiles alike and that the law had come from angles. I don't have the verse right now but there is an excellent presentation on youtube which covers this thoroughly. I don't think he would have a problem with me sharing his video since it's for all to hear on youtube so I'll link it. If it sounds absurd now that's ok I thought so too but keep in mind one thing: in the infancy years of Christianity when the world was Roman, in order for them to survive as a religion they had to prove they were part of an older tradition not something new which the roman's hated and distrusted, new religious cults. They had to show a pedigree, and it was truly actually an outgrowth of Judaism, but it was clearly different, especially as taught by Paul. Maybe the gnostics were right after all, that the god the jews worshiped was not the true god and Jesus was an emissary from the true yet unknown true god above Yehweh? Hersey you say? Sure it is, but look under the hood of early Christianity and do your own research. Cheers

Congratulations - you discovered Marcionism:

Marcionism - Wikipedia

Hopefully your version isn't as anti-Semitic as the original.

 

[Akivah]

• I am becoming more and more convinced the more I read from both the old and the new testaments, that they can't be reconciled.

Generally when people educate themselves and do their own research, they reach the correct conclusion that Christianity and Judaism have different gods. I have found that the people that don't understand this, have never read the Tanakh. They just read the Christian old testament and think they have read about the beliefs of Judaism.

 

[Akivah]

The God of the old Testament , or the Tanakh if you prefer,

Please keep your glossary straight. The Christian old testament is a different book than the Tanakh. The Tanakh is the authoritative book for Judaism, containing the Torah which are G-d's actual words given to us at Mount Sinai. The Christian old testament was written by Christians to make it support the existence of their man-god.