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Is it possible to achieve redemption even if ...

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?
 

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
Not sure if reincarnation is real or not, but if that's what it takes, my heart is ready.

Unforgivable crimes must be punished, the evil must die
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?
Sometimes they do. I don't think anybody goes instantly from devil to angel though. I think its like learning to skate, from what I am told. Some people seem to manage, but I don't believe any instant transformation stories. I think its more like when somebody is trying to lose weight or get over addictions.

The redemption part is mostly a matter of people either not knowing or forgiving. I wouldn't go around telling people about my past. I would try to put it behind me.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Wouldn't those who believe in reincarnation typically have to admit that some demons eventually become angelic?
It is fully possible, but it would take a heck of a lot of reincarnations to do so yes, in my understanding Hell is not permanent if you should be unlucky to end up there. So technically yes you can get out.
We as humans are close enough to Hell that the Alarm clock should go off within us about, ok now it is time to become a better being. Because Hell is truly not the place you want to end up.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?

I suppose different traditions have different ideas about that, but on a personal or subjective level, I think mystical experiences can -- and sometimes do -- help with that. I mean, from the individual's own perspective. The world at large might still regard them as unredeemed.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?
I can only speak for my self here. But to me, it is possible to forgive. That said, even if i was to forgive everyone who has harmed me, they are not free from what they did to me or others. They still have to pay for the evil deeds they did. so in my understanding if a human being does only evil deeds, they will fall even closer to hell then we are now, and if they still don't realize their faulty behavior they will end up in a form of Hell.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I suppose different traditions have different ideas about that, but on a personal or subjective level, I think mystical experiences can -- and sometimes do -- help with that. I mean, from the individual's own perspective. The world at large might still regard them as unredeemed.

I'd say it sometimes doesn't always matter what the world thinks, as sometimes whether you are innocent or worthy of punishment comes down to choice of lawyer. Although, the worse one does, the less likely any lawyer or PR can help them.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?

Although I don't agree with a lot of his theology, I find C. S. Lewis "Great Divorce" has a lot valid to say. The whole book is about choices people have Here's a quote which I think speaks to your question and answers with great optimism to those who choose an upward path. Crimes have to be paid for but those who seek joy will find it.

"All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?

Have you ever read the account of Manasseh?
Manasseh was a "King of Judah who was the son and successor of King Hezekiah. (2Ki 20:21; 2Ch 32:33) Manasseh’s mother was Hephzibah. He was 12 years old when he ascended the throne as the 14th king of Judah after David and ruled for 55 years (716-662 B.C.E.) in Jerusalem. (2Ki 21:1) He did what was bad in Jehovah’s eyes, rebuilding the high places his father had destroyed, setting up altars to Baal, worshiping “all the army of the heavens,” and building false religious altars in two temple courtyards. He made his sons pass through the fire, practiced magic, employed divination, and promoted spiritistic practices. Manasseh also put the graven image of the sacred pole he had made into the house of Jehovah. He seduced Judah and Jerusalem “to do worse than the nations that Jehovah had annihilated from before the sons of Israel.” (2Ki 21:2-9; 2Ch 33:2-9) Though Jehovah sent prophets, these were not heeded. Manasseh was also guilty of shedding innocent blood in great quantity (2Ki 21:10-16), which, according to the literature of the Jewish rabbis, included that of Isaiah, who they say was sawed apart at Manasseh’s command.—Compare Heb 11:37.

Manasseh was punished for paying no attention to Jehovah’s message, the king of Assyria taking him captive to Babylon, one of the Assyrian monarch’s royal cities. (2Ch 33:10, 11) ‘Manasseh of Judah’ is mentioned in Assyrian King Esar-haddon’s list of 22 tribute-paying “kings of Hatti, the seashore and the islands.” Manasseh’s name also appears in a list of kings tributary to Ashurbanipal.—Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 291, 294.

While in captivity, Manasseh repented, humbled himself, and prayed to Jehovah. God heard his request for favor and restored him to the kingship in Jerusalem. (2Ch 33:12, 13) Manasseh thereafter “built an outer wall for the City of David,” put military chiefs in Judah’s fortified cities, and removed the foreign gods and the idol image from Jehovah’s house, as well as the altars he had built “in the mountain of the house of Jehovah and in Jerusalem.” Manasseh prepared the altar of Jehovah and began to sacrifice upon it, encouraging others also to serve Jehovah. However, the people were still sacrificing on the high places, though to Jehovah. (2Ch 33:14-17) At Manasseh’s death, he was succeeded in the kingship by his son Amon.—2Ch 33:20."
From Insight Volumes WTS.

If God can forgive Manasseh...he can forgive anyone. All he requires is a contrite heart and a repentant spirit.

Isaiah 55:7...
"Let the wicked man leave his way
And the evil man his thoughts;
Let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy on him,
To our God, for he will forgive in a large way."
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?

Ideally, it's taught that one repents of their misdeed so they can reconcile themselves with god. In christianity, the only thing that separates a person from god is pure rejection of him not repentable actions.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?
Can you give an example of what you consider an unforgivable crime?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I don't know if I should really create this thread, but this has been eating me from the inside out and will continue to do so, I am sure. But, everyone, can a man who has committed unforgivable crimes achieve redemption? Sins that are heavy enough to crush anyone, can such sins be erased? Can a devil become an angel?

Well some of us, I suspect, are not keen on such words as redemption, sin, angels, or devils, unless used in the colloquial sense. I certainly believe that we can leave the bad that we might have done behind us and progress to a better place, but it often depends upon others as to such happening. One might change sufficiently to become a better person - recognising any badness in the past, being regretful over such, and perhaps related to how one was as an individual then (mental health issues possibly) - but all too often, others will not see such as being possible. Of course it all depends upon what kind of badness one has done, since I would think some crimes cannot ever be redeemed in the views of many even if one can get over them oneself.
 
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