Is it possible to be an atheist and a Taoist at the same time?

[Renji]

Can someone orient me of what Taoism is? Being half Korean, I have relatives and friends who follow this belief system, but I don't understand it completely. I didn't put this thread in the Taosim DIR because I want to know different views about it and compare it with mine. Alright, my views are completely atheistic, but I find Taoism kinda interesting, having some relatives (and my ex as well) who are adherents of it. It's not like I am believing (or I want to believe) on things like celestial deity, magics and talismans that followers of Taoism believe, it's just that I find some principles in it interesting. Thoughts?

 

[psychoslice]

I see no reason not to have a philosophy of Taoism, after all its not a belief in any god.

 

[DawudTalut]

Can someone orient me of what Taoism is? .........................................Thoughts?

Peace be on you.
"
ALL CHINESE RELIGIONS are derived from the same ancient source of spiritual and religious experiences of the great Chinese sage prophet Fu Hsi. In the subsequent ages, many a great sage and thinker pondered over the works of Fu Hsi and studied them in-depth. Based on their study they presented to the Chinese people new philosophies, sciences, religions and moral teachings. Among them are King Wan, his son Cheu Kung and Lao-tzu, all held in great esteem by the Chinese people of all ages. The way of life presented by Lao-tzu (6th century BC), a contemporary of Confucius, is known as Taoism.

In Taoism, eternal truth is embodied in a being known as Tao whose attributes are spiritual and holy rather than material. Tao can be aptly defined as a personification of eternal virtues. They are precisely the same attributes as ascribed to God in Islam and other Divinely revealed religions................More.........."

Source: By Fourth Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah (a.t.) in Book "Revelation, Rationlity, Knowledge and Truth" @ Taoism

 

[LuisDantas]

Can someone orient me of what Taoism is? Being half Korean, I have relatives and friends who follow this belief system, but I don't understand it completely. I didn't put this thread in the Taosim DIR because I want to know different views about it and compare it with mine. Alright, my views are completely atheistic, but I find Taoism kinda interesting, having some relatives (and my ex as well) who are adherents of it. It's not like I am believing (or I want to believe) on things like celestial deity, magics and talismans that followers of Taoism believe, it's just that I find some principles in it interesting. Thoughts?

I have read the Tao Te Ching. It is gloriously wise and completely compatible with naturalism. It may well be the one scripture I actually recommend.

 

[Sees]

Not even close...plainly stated nothing like monotheistic Abrahamic religions. Throw out the dualism and Tao as a being - for starters.

Peace be on you.
"
ALL CHINESE RELIGIONS are derived from the same ancient source of spiritual and religious experiences of the great Chinese sage prophet Fu Hsi. In the subsequent ages, many a great sage and thinker pondered over the works of Fu Hsi and studied them in-depth. Based on their study they presented to the Chinese people new philosophies, sciences, religions and moral teachings. Among them are King Wan, his son Cheu Kung and Lao-tzu, all held in great esteem by the Chinese people of all ages. The way of life presented by Lao-tzu (6th century BC), a contemporary of Confucius, is known as Taoism.

In Taoism, eternal truth is embodied in a being known as Tao whose attributes are spiritual and holy rather than material. Tao can be aptly defined as a personification of eternal virtues. They are precisely the same attributes as ascribed to God in Islam and other Divinely revealed religions................More.........."

Source: By Fourth Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah (a.t.) in Book "Revelation, Rationlity, Knowledge and Truth" @ Taoism

 

[psychoslice]

Yep, throw out any concept of the Tao, the more we talk about it and trying to define it, the more ignorant we become.

 

[godnotgod]

I have read the Tao Te Ching. It is gloriously wise and completely compatible with naturalism. It may well be the one scripture I actually recommend.

I agree with you. The Tao te Ching, attributed to the great sage, Lao tse, is a wonderful work which reflects the true mystical nature of Taoism. One can spend a lifetime in its study. Then the formal religion followed. Besides the many translations of the Tao te Ching that can be found online*, I recommend the following, for a kind of running commentary and short history:

Taoism: The Parting of the Way: Holmes H. Welch Jr.: 9780807059739: Amazon.com: Books

"Called "a first rate piece of work" by T.S. Eliot, this book offers a comprehensive discussion of Taoism, one of the world's major religions, as well as a study of the Tao te ching, the best known Taoist text and Lao-tzu as a Taoist prototype. "Clarifies a large area of literature and history that has been a mystery to the West and makes fascinating reading even for those whose interest is casual." -The New Yorker"

There are also the works of the Taoist sage, Chuang Tzu. (Zhuangzi), that are of great interest. Here is a taste of his humor:

“The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words. I'd like to have a word with him"


* I keep returning to the Arthur Waley translation, although others are very good too. Arthur Waley, here:

Tao Te Ching, English by Arthur Waley - Terebess Asia Online (TAO)

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Taoism has no concept of a god, and there are many atheist Taoists. There are also theistic Taoists. Its quite allowing for both. The Tao te Ching says the Tao is not a god, because it says the Tao that can be spoken of is not the true and eternal Tao.

 

[DreadFish]

There are two different "kinds" of Taoism. The one it sounds like your relatives follow is the "Religious Taoism" which takes a lot of Chinese cultural practices which, IMO, have nothing to do with the Tao or the philosophy of Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu.

The other is called "Philosophical Taoism" and has no rituals or deities to believe in. It's simply teachings on the Way of reality.

So I'd say just start with reading the Tao Te Ching and base yourself in that. Never mind talismans and magic and all that stuff.

 

[Renji]

I agree with you. The Tao te Ching, attributed to the great sage, Lao tse, is a wonderful work which reflects the true mystical nature of Taoism. One can spend a lifetime in its study. Then the formal religion followed. Besides the many translations of the Tao te Ching that can be found online*, I recommend the following, for a kind of running commentary and short history:

Taoism: The Parting of the Way: Holmes H. Welch Jr.: 9780807059739: Amazon.com: Books

"Called "a first rate piece of work" by T.S. Eliot, this book offers a comprehensive discussion of Taoism, one of the world's major religions, as well as a study of the Tao te ching, the best known Taoist text and Lao-tzu as a Taoist prototype. "Clarifies a large area of literature and history that has been a mystery to the West and makes fascinating reading even for those whose interest is casual." -The New Yorker"

There are also the works of the Taoist sage, Chuang Tzu. (Zhuangzi), that are of great interest. Here is a taste of his humor:

“The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words. I'd like to have a word with him"


* I keep returning to the Arthur Waley translation, although others are very good too. Arthur Waley, here:

Tao Te Ching, English by Arthur Waley - Terebess Asia Online (TAO)

Thanks for this one. Helps a lot.

 

[Renji]

It's quite a relief, I don't have to say spells like Xing yang cup cup ling lang tong.

 

[Straw Dog]

Philosophical Taoism is compatible with naturalism and atheism. Many interpret the Tao Te Ching in a mystical way, but it could also be interpreted in a skeptical way. I believe the latter makes more sense.

 

[LuisDantas]

Philosophical Taoism is compatible with naturalism and atheism. Many interpret the Tao Te Ching in a mystical way, but it could also be interpreted in a skeptical way. I believe the latter makes more sense.

Agreed. Although I never got the distinction between phylosophical and religious Taoism. How can they be told apart?

 

[Straw Dog]

Luis,

Agreed. Although I never got the distinction between phylosophical and religious Taoism. How can they be told apart?

Yes, there is a great deal of overlap for many practitioners. The more philosophical end of Taoism tends to focus on linguistics and skepticism regarding an absolute guidance or way of life.

 

[psychoslice]

Philosophical Taoism is compatible with naturalism and atheism. Many interpret the Tao Te Ching in a mystical way, but it could also be interpreted in a skeptical way. I believe the latter makes more sense.

You don't understand the Tao, the Tao is all there is, its pure Consciousness, there is nothing but the Tao, its beyond philosophy which is of the mind.

 

[InChrist]

http://synclesian.hubpages.com/hub/Compare-Christ-to-Taoism

Here is an excerpt from an interesting article:

'Jesus is Tao personified. He is the Tao in bodily form—a Tao-man. Jesus Himself is called “The Way.” He does not merely show man the way to live, but His very living Person becomes our daily personal way into divine reality.


Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (John 14:6)


Jesus is the real living Tao! Whereas Tao is considered to be a universal principle that is behind all interactions in the universe, Jesus Christ is the universal Person:


For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Col. 1:16-17)


Christ Himself is the flow of the universe. He created all things and holds all things together. All nature expresses Him, as He is the divine artist that is creatively expressed. His beauty, power, and grandeur are in nature. He keeps all in balance and order."

Compare Christ to Taoism

 

[psychoslice]

No, that is too much info, the Tao is what is, its not a story of Jesus or whoever.

 

[godnotgod]

You don't understand the Tao, the Tao is all there is, its pure Consciousness, there is nothing but the Tao, its beyond philosophy which is of the mind.

Exactly! Nature is not philosophical in its very essence. So the mystical approach I believe will get one closest to the Tao. It is only after the mystical experience of Tao that philosophy and religion follow. The Tao te Ching are words written directly from someone at one with the Tao.

Some may find it of interest, even a shock, that there are intimate ties between Taoism and Zen, ties that are detailed in Ray Grigg's book: The Tao of Zen:

The Tao of Zen: Ray Grigg: 9780785811251: Amazon.com: Books

Both Taoism and Zen reflect the unity of the ordinary world with the miraculous: There is no separate 'supernatural' world in domination above the natural world. There is only this world, right here, right now.

'Chop wood;
carry water.
How miraculous!'

 

[godnotgod]

Here is an excerpt from an interesting article:

'Jesus is Tao personified. He is the Tao in bodily form—a Tao-man. Jesus Himself is called “The Way.” He does not merely show man the way to live, but His very living Person becomes our daily personal way into divine reality.


Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (John 14:6)


Jesus is the real living Tao! Whereas Tao is considered to be a universal principle that is behind all interactions in the universe, Jesus Christ is the universal Person:


For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Col. 1:16-17)


Christ Himself is the flow of the universe. He created all things and holds all things together. All nature expresses Him, as He is the divine artist that is creatively expressed. His beauty, power, and grandeur are in nature. He keeps all in balance and order."

Compare Christ to Taoism

Nah! There is no anthropomorphic specialist keeper of the balance and of the order; there is only the balance and the order. We are not separate from it, contrary to what the mind tells us.

 

[godnotgod]

Philosophical Taoism is compatible with naturalism and atheism. Many interpret the Tao Te Ching in a mystical way, but it could also be interpreted in a skeptical way. I believe the latter makes more sense.

I fail to see how that can be possible. Skepticism is of the intellect; the Tao is non-intellectual. Whenever the attempt is made to intellectualize upon the nature of things, we only end up in paradox, and that is because the mind is forever trying to encapsulate nature into concepts. Nature is not a frozen reality, but a flowing action. Paradox is the result when science, religion, and philosophy attempt to pin nature down, and fail.