Is It Possible To Come to Faith by Reason Alone?

[Storm]

DIR, DIR!

(I almost replied myself, but then I saw where we were.)

The authentic spiritual experience requires neither belief nor proof.

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[Storm]

Dude, STOP DEBATING IN THE DIR!

 

[Heneni]

What do ya'll think? While reason always plays an important part in faith, is it possible to only use reason to arrive at a relationship with God the way Christianity understands it? What about the Holy Spirit and what role does that play in coming to faith? How can a non-believer come to faith if they don't have the Holy Spirit? For that matter, do we at least need some faith to somehow satisfy a "requirement" of God?

Reasoning is done with the mind, and with it people have reasoned god away. HEHE...

So i dont think that reason has much to do with faith. Faith is believing in what is real in another dimension, without having seen it. The mind wont allow such a thing and short circuits in that way. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.

When i talk about 'see' i mean it in the sense of seeing with our natural eyes. But we behold and 'see' spiritually the glory of god, with our spiritual intuition, and its in the spirit that faith is rooted and grows in the soil of grace.

When the bible talks about christians having ears to hear, it means we have the ability to hear and undestand what the spirit of god says to us, in our spiritual intituition , whereas ears that cant hear are ears that hear but never come to understand, having no spiritually awakened intutiton.

When the bible talks about christians having eyes that can see, it means we have the ability to discern good from evil, whereas eyes that cannot see plods around in the darkness having no idea what is acceptable or not acceptable to god. They can only guess, or use their own moral code.

Hearing is for listening and understanding
Seeing is for discerning between things

Faith comes by hearing....listening and understanding
This faith can then also discern and distinguish.

Faith is the eyes and ears of a believer. Eyes to discern the works of god, and ears that hear and understand his wisdom without ever having heard him naturally speak or appear in visible form.

Faith is the sense organ with which we use to experience god, as our eyes and ears are used to experience the natural world.

Heneni

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

Thread Re-opened

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[Midnight Pete]

What do ya'll think? While reason always plays an important part in faith, is it possible to only use reason to arrive at a relationship with God the way Christianity understands it? What about the Holy Spirit and what role does that play in coming to faith? How can a non-believer come to faith if they don't have the Holy Spirit? For that matter, do we at least need some faith to somehow satisfy a "requirement" of God?

Coming to Jesus requires that you believe, absolutely without question. :yes:

One cannot reason his way to God. :no:

 

[Walkntune]

What do ya'll think? While reason always plays an important part in faith, is it possible to only use reason to arrive at a relationship with God the way Christianity understands it? What about the Holy Spirit and what role does that play in coming to faith? How can a non-believer come to faith if they don't have the Holy Spirit? For that matter, do we at least need some faith to somehow satisfy a "requirement" of God?

The bible is pretty clear we can only come to God through faith.The carnal mind is at enmity with God and cannot know him or be subject to his laws.To me faith means intuitive knowingness which I believe we can reason intuitively about God where intellectual reasoning is of carnality and can never come to know God.God is found in our hearts which I believe is symbolic for our intuitional senses and actually by quieting the mind.Be still and know that i am God.
This is my understanding and interpretation.

 

[dance-above]

I don't think you can come to faith through reason alone. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence... but evidence is required for rational thought.

If you used reason alone, you would conclude that there was no virgin birth, there was no resurrection, there was no walking on water, healing the sick, the blind etc. etc... Those are all beliefs that require faith, they require you to suspend logic and reason because reason leads us to believe that the laws of the physical universe cannot be broken.

On the contrary, faith is the evidence of things hoped for.the assurance of things to come. It is a gift of God.:rainbow1:

 

[dance-above]

no, faith is believing without evidence.

The word "faith" means trust. Just like a trust account. A covenant. A promise. It is a literal gift of God of things to come.

 

[RickDeVon]

The only "requirement" is Faith in Him
You have to Believe....So easy even a cave...Never mind

 

[strikeviperMKII]

What do ya'll think? While reason always plays an important part in faith, is it possible to only use reason to arrive at a relationship with God the way Christianity understands it? What about the Holy Spirit and what role does that play in coming to faith? How can a non-believer come to faith if they don't have the Holy Spirit? For that matter, do we at least need some faith to somehow satisfy a "requirement" of God?

The curious thing about faith is that you don't at one point say 'aha, I got it. That's what faith is' and then be done with it. The best way to do it that I've found, is just to assume you have whatever you think you need, and then see what that means. Usually, you'll find that a lot (if not all) the things you think you need you have already, or don't really need at all. Then you make new assumptions based on that, and the process starts again.
Eventually, it will start being more automatic and the ideas will just pop into your head like someone just put them there.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Is It Possible To Come to Faith by Reason Alone?

I don't believe so. :no:

 

[Midnight Pete]

What do ya'll think? While reason always plays an important part in faith, is it possible to only use reason to arrive at a relationship with God the way Christianity understands it? What about the Holy Spirit and what role does that play in coming to faith? How can a non-believer come to faith if they don't have the Holy Spirit? For that matter, do we at least need some faith to somehow satisfy a "requirement" of God?

I strongly suspect you already know the answers to these questions.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Human reason has no part in faith. The Holy Spirit must come into your heart for faith to happen. You cannot choose to believe.

I certainly can choose to believe.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I certainly can choose to believe.

What we believe in chooses us.

 

[Bereanz]

What do ya'll think? While reason always plays an important part in faith, is it possible to only use reason to arrive at a relationship with God the way Christianity understands it? What about the Holy Spirit and what role does that play in coming to faith? How can a non-believer come to faith if they don't have the Holy Spirit? For that matter, do we at least need some faith to somehow satisfy a "requirement" of God?

It's unreasonable not to have faith, the evidence is so overwhelming that men are without excuse for failing to use their God given faculties to believe. In fact the Bible goes as far as calling them fools.

The Bible is not a faery romance to beguile us for a while from the sordid realities of life. It is the Divine complement of the laws of nature and Gods other master volume, creation. (Italics mine) It is also the Divine compliment of Conscience and Humanity. It introduces us to a new universe of revelation facts not known to unregenerate commonsense. Facts in the natural domain have to be accepted, and facts in the revelation domain have to be accepted; our explanation of facts is always open to alteration, but you cannot alter facts. The Bible does not simply explain to us the greatest number of facts, it is the only ground of understanding all the facts, that is, it puts into the hand of the Spirit-born the key to the explaination of all mysteries. OSWALD CHAMBERS

I dont mind agnostics, they just haven't met any one yet or taken the time to allow someone to explain the facts to them, but I have no time for skeptics. A skeptic is intelectually immoral, they dont even have the honesty to apply/experiment with the teachings of Jesus Christ to see if it's true or not. There isn't anything in this universe that mystifies me more than that, it's totally unreasonable to say the least.

 

[TJ73]

I think you can. We are searching for a plausible theory of how the universe came to be. So there are some scientific theories that conclude how it could be without any intelligent design and people agree because the have reasoned it to be the most logical theory. Then there are those that conclude there must be intelligent design. So may be it doesn't led to "faith" but belief in a Creator. Reason would then assume the plausibility of that creator having a path, or plan or some set of values and that we could espouse and that would be the faith part.

 

[Bereanz]

It is the work of the Holy Spirit to lead all men/women to repentence, When Peter recognised that Jesus was the Son of God, Jesus said the following.

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

Psalm 14:2-3 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God seeks after men and it is the work of the Holy Spirit (The Spirit of God) to do this, one doesnt need to be saved in order to be wooed by the Holy SPirit to come to faith in Jesus Christ. But people can and obviously do reject the Holy Spirit's moving even unto death and this is the unforgiveable sin mentioned in the scripture. There is no forgiveness after death when one has rejected the Holy Spirits leading to Jesus Christ for their whole life. This tells me that the Holy Spirit of God is attempting to lead every single Human being to salvation through Christ every waking moment of their earthly life. Yes the born again believer possesses and is possessed by the Holy Spirit but for the unbeliver the Holy Spirit is always knockng on the door from the outside, politely, never forcefully, waiting to be invited in. In fact it is the Holy Spirit that is constantly looking for opportunities to reason with us.

 

[diosangpastol]

it should be faith with action. I have seen many people who declare their to God but i also see them doing the other way around.... I don't know how they do that? I mean they go to church profess their faith to God and be Corupt!

 

[dance-above]

Faith is a gift of God.

 

[dance-above]

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and The end. The author and finisher of your faith.
The capton of our salvation. I meant captain.