Is it Possible to Love without Jealousy, Possessiveness, Suspicion, Fear, etc?

[Sunstone]

Is it possible for a man and a woman to live together, to have sex and children, without all the turmoil, bitterness and conflict inherent in such a relationship? Is it possible for there to be freedom on both sides? I don't mean by freedom that the husband or wife should constantly be having affairs with someone else. People usually come together and get married because they fall in love, and in that there is desire, choice, pleasure, possessiveness and tremendous drive. The very nature of this in-loveness is from the start filled with the seeds of conflict.

Is it? Need it be? I very much question that. Can't you fall in love and not have a possessive relationship? I love someone and she loves me and we get married - that is all perfectly straightforward and simple, in that there is no conflict at all. (When I say we get married I might just as well say we decide to live together - don't let's get caught up in words.) Can't one have that without the other, without the tail as it were, necessarily following? Can't two people be in love and both be so intelligent and so sensitive that there is freedom and absence of a centre that makes for conflict? Conflict is not in the feeling of being in love. The feeling of being in love is utterly without conflict. There is no loss of energy in being in love. The loss of energy is in the tail, in everything that follows - jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, the fear of losing that love, the constant demand for reassurance and security. Surely it must be possible to function in a sexual relationship with someone you love without the nightmare which usually follows. Of course it is.

Source: Krishnamurti, Krishnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 3, 1969 Krishnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 4, 1969

What do you make of this? Is it possible to have a loving, sexual relationship with someone without all the drama of jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear, and so forth? Are those things necessary to a loving, sexual relationship?

 

[psychoslice]

In love there can be no conflict, its when we are out of love there is conflict, so how many people really experience love when they believe their in love, I would think not many.

 

[Parsimony]

As far as I can tell, such problems have never occurred with my parents.

 

[Penumbra]

I think so.

For it to work like that, love has to be viewed primarily as something that one wants to express to others, rather than something that one needs others to express to them. Preferences for receiving it are okay, but when it turns into clinging, then jealousy, fear, and all that happens. Relationships, from that perspective, are viewed as opportunities to express one's loving nature, and to give the partner an opportunity to express their loving nature as well. The contrast to that perspective would be viewing it like an inherent incompleteness that gets filled by a specific person, thereby limiting them and you.

That's also why I don't really agree with the institution of marriage as it's currently defined. I'm all in favor of an easily-recognize contract between a bonded couple that grants financial privileges, hospital visitation, recognition for health benefits, fair division of assets upon separation, child custody rights, etc. So in the practical sense, I don't mind the idea.

But as it's currently defined, as something that's intended to be lifelong, I don't agree with it. The divorce rate makes a mockery of that idea. Promising that one will always love someone, and in a certain way, is promising something that is not yours to give. Promising future feelings is limiting, and I wouldn't ask for or give such a promise. I'll promise on future actions, but not future feelings. In my mind, the ideal loving relationship is one that exists for as long as the couple feels it is the best expression of their love. When it's not, then moving onto something else is okay. And if it's lifelong, that's fine too, especially if they did so without feeling like they have to make it lifelong out of some obligation.

 

[Revoltingest]

Personal experience says yes.

 

[dawny0826]

Source: Krishnamurti, Krishnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 3, 1969 Krishnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 4, 1969

What do you make of this? Is it possible to have a loving, sexual relationship with someone without all the unnecessary drama of jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear, and so forth?

I don't think that any human being has lived their life void of some form of jealousy, posessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear and so forth. When people approach relationships honestly and in balance, human emotions such as jealousy, posessiveness, fear, etc. are not crippling, abusive and oppressive and can yield important lessons that can strengthen.

I think first and foremost, an individual must know, love and accept who they are before they can expect to have any chance in hell of having successful relationships. Partners should share a degree of like mindedness in terms of expectations for their lives and make decisions that make them happy, not decisions that appease others or align with societal or cultural expectation.

If people approach their own desires and expectations with honesty, their relationships will be healthier as a result, assuming that there's kindness and decency in the equation.

Father Heathen and I describe our marriage as one of contentment, peace, fulfillment and mutual understanding. We're not perfect, as we're human. But, we face adversity in our lives together. I fear losing half of myself one day, but, that can't consume me as we're blessed to share the time that we have together. I'll be no less blessed tomorrow.

 

[roger1440]

Source: Krishnamurti, Krishnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 3, 1969 Krishnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 4, 1969

What do you make of this? Is it possible to have a loving, sexual relationship with someone without all the unnecessary drama of jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear, and so forth?

You might find this interesting. One of the top “self-help gurus” is Wayne Dyer, “International bestselling author of more than thirty books and one of the most famous faces in self improvement…”. The Top Ten Self Help And Self Improvement Gurus


He is the author of “Your Erroneous Zones is the first self-help book written by Wayne Dyer and issued on August 1, 1976. It is one of the top-selling books of all time, with an estimated 35 million copies sold. The book spent 64 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list through November 13, 1977, including a spot at number one on the week of May 8, 1977.” Your Erroneous Zones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The guy has been married three times, LOL

 

[Sunstone]

You might find this interesting. One of the top “self-help gurus” is Wayne Dyer, “International bestselling author of more than thirty books and one of the most famous faces in self improvement…”. The Top Ten Self Help And Self Improvement Gurus


He is the author of “Your Erroneous Zones is the first self-help book written by Wayne Dyer and issued on August 1, 1976. It is one of the top-selling books of all time, with an estimated 35 million copies sold. The book spent 64 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list through November 13, 1977, including a spot at number one on the week of May 8, 1977.” Your Erroneous Zones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The guy has been married three times, LOL

And this means to you....what?

 

[roger1440]

And this means to you....what?

Was Krishnamurti able to practice what he had preached?

 

[methylatedghosts]

In love there can be no conflict, its when we are out of love there is conflict, so how many people really experience love when they believe their in love, I would think not many.

I disagree. Even in love there is conflict. The key difference between love and not-love is the manner in which the conflicts are expressed and resolved. To imagine that there is no conflict in love is to set yourself up for some serious disappointment and disillusionment later on down the line.

 

[psychoslice]

I disagree. Even in love there is conflict. The key difference between love and not-love is the manner in which the conflicts are expressed and resolved. To imagine that there is no conflict in love is to set yourself up for some serious disappointment and disillusionment later on down the line.

I disagree also, love is love, its not anything but love, what we add to that is from our neurotic mind.

 

[Caladan]

What do you make of this? Is it possible to have a loving, sexual relationship with someone without all the unnecessary drama of jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear, and so forth?

Who said it's unnecessary drama? Keeping an edge once in a while is not a bad thing.
Who really wants to be in a relationship devoid of passion or desire? The question is do you let the passions dictate your life or do you play the game well?

 

[oldbadger]

What do you make of this? Is it possible to have a loving, sexual relationship with someone without all the unnecessary drama of jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear, and so forth?

No. Not possible. For me it is fear....... fear for my partner, for her safety, etc.
If she fell in love with and left me for another, it would probably crush me, and so in that situation I might experience all the rest of that list.

But..... the same goes for property, freedoms, rights, abilities etc. Take 'loving relationship' out of the sentence and insert 'gold', or anything, and you have it...... that humans tend to grasp to and fear for all that they love, cherish and value.

Even you, who could well have removed yourself from the world of mammon, do cherish, value and love. Suppose a wicked and very jealous person, envious of your ability to create the most beautiful scenes on canvas, paper and board, was to truss you and operate to remove that part of your brain which gives you the ability to do the things that you love doing? ...... And you knew of that person's rage, envy and hatred.... would you trust them?

Mystics like Kahlil Gibran might have been immune to some extent, but I don't think that he was ever truly devoted to any one individual. I think it was he who wrote:-
'If you love something enough, let it be free. If it comes back it's yours, if it doesn't it never was.'

But, to answer the question...... Yes. True.

 

[Sunstone]

Was Krishnamurti able to practice what he had preached?

He had quite a reputation for practicing what he preached. I'm not sure how practical his advice is for some people, but he himself apparently practiced it.

 

[Sunstone]

In love there can be no conflict, its when we are out of love there is conflict, so how many people really experience love when they believe their in love, I would think not many.

I suspect you and Krishnamurti would agree that there is only one thing worth calling "love". If so, I hold a different view I think there are several things that can be called love. The sort of thing Krishnamurti and you are calling love is, in my opinion, fairly rare. But yes, I would strongly agree with you that there is no internal conflict in that kind of love.

 

[Sunstone]

Who said it's unnecessary drama? Keeping an edge once in a while is not a bad thing.
Who really wants to be in a relationship devoid of passion or desire? The question is do you let the passions dictate your life or do you play the game well?

Are you using "passions" here to refer to jealousy, fear, possessiveness, suspicion, etc,? Just curious.

 

[Sunstone]

I disagree. Even in love there is conflict. The key difference between love and not-love is the manner in which the conflicts are expressed and resolved. To imagine that there is no conflict in love is to set yourself up for some serious disappointment and disillusionment later on down the line.

I think you're both right, but you two are talking about different things while using the same word for both.

 

[Me Myself]

Personal experience says yes.

Absolutely cero of all of those? Never any fear never any sentiment of posession never any jealousy at all?

Dammit man, you TRULY love bacon.

 

[Revoltingest]

Absolutely cero of all of those? Never any fear never any sentiment of posession never any jealousy at all?
Dammit man, you TRULY love bacon.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
I've many flaws, but just none of those.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What do you make of this? Is it possible to have a loving, sexual relationship with someone without all the unnecessary drama of jealousy, possessiveness, suspicion, doubt, fear, and so forth?

Marry someone who nobody else wants, and who is the only person who wants you. Bam, problem solved.

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