Is it possible to see God's 'face'?

[Redemptionsong]

I can offer this finds clarity in the Baha'i Message. No one can see God, not even the Messengers.

Thus the Face of God we can see is God's chosen Messengers, they are the representation of God to humanity.

Many of the past Messengers talk of the Father and seeing the Father. The Father is a another Messenger as promised by the Son. The Son becomes the Father (Another Messenger), the Son does not become God.

So the Face of God they talk about is the Messiah of the end of ages, the one that will fulfill the promises as recorded in all the scriptures.

This is a massive subject, it is really the foundations of all Faiths and how we come to know God by the many names and attributes of the Messengers.

This is what the Father has offered.
For us to consider.

"VERILY I say, this is the Day in which mankind can behold the Face, and hear the Voice, of the Promised One. The Call of God hath been raised, and the light of His countenance hath been lifted up upon men. It behooveth every man to blot out the trace of every idle word from the tablet of his heart, and to gaze, with an open and unbiased mind, on the signs of His Revelation, the proofs of His Mission, and the tokens of His glory.

Spoiler: Remainder of quote

Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Daystar of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God’s Will, than all, except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless.

O thou that hast remembered Me! The most grievous veil hath shut out the peoples of the earth from His glory, and hindered them from hearkening to His call. God grant that the light of unity may envelop the whole earth, and that the seal, “the Kingdom is God’s,” may be stamped upon the brow of all its peoples

Regards Tony

Good to see you back, Tony.

Moses was allowed to see God's 'back parts' [Exodus 33:23] but not his face. Yet, we are also told that the LORD 'spake unto Moses face to face'. [Exodus 33:11]

How would you explain this?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
Colossians 1:15

So to see Jesus was to see God, only not in his glorified form.

Matt 17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

When you say that Christ is the visible image, and existed before anything was created, do you mean that the visible image existed before creation?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Good to see you back, Tony.

Moses was allowed to see God's 'back parts' [Exodus 33:23] but not his face. Yet, we are also told that the LORD 'spake unto Moses face to face'. [Exodus 33:11]

How would you explain this?

Thank you for the welcome and questions, I love these topics, but it is hard to find people wishing to explore them once Baha'u'llah is mentioned. Great thing is, much is written on this.

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah have offered it was they that conversed with Moses from the burning bush. I personally see It is the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah that has unfolded the full Messanic Prophecy, even though it is just as applicable to Jesus and Muhammad, because in the reality of the Holy Spirit, they are One and all, the One same Holy Spirit.

The fist emanation of God is the Word ( the Messengers)

John 1 is our guide on this in the Bible.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men."

That Word becomes flesh in this world, to be the 'Self of God' to us. The giver of God's Attributes, Revelation and Message to humanity.

Much can be discussed. Regards Tony

 

[Wildswanderer]

The transfiguration is an interesting event. Do you think we can draw the conclusion that the Lord who returns will appear in a similar fashion.

Given the descriptions of Jesus in Revelations, I think so.

 

[Wildswanderer]

When you say that Christ is the visible image, and existed before anything was created, do you mean that the visible image existed before creation?

I don't read that into it... Just that the Godhead always existed.
I would tend to think it means that God took on a visible face when Jesus took on flesh.

 

[Kenny]

Do you think that Jesus meant 'seeing' as spiritual or physical?

I see your avatar has the words, Face to face with my Father!

I think Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward.

Hebrews 1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[101G]

he may have had a different look to the appearance of Jesus.

God, do he change? no, "I change not", meaning in some kind of deception? no. when the priest and prophet Ezekiel saw God and his throne that he sat on, it was the same when John saw him on the throne in Revelation. as well as the prophet Isaiah. so, the track record is the same.

but what about him, God, in flesh? listen, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" 1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:" 1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."

so the body that the Lord Jesus rose in was not exactly the same..... in appearance. because many spoked with him but did not recognize him, (by FACE) right off. supportive scripture, Luke 24:13 "And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs." Luke 24:14 "And they talked together of all these things which had happened." Luke 24:15 "And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them." Luke 24:16 "But their eyes were holden that they should not know him." Luke 24:17 "And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?" Luke 24:18 "And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?" Luke 24:19 "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:"

so they didn't recognize him by FACE. but let's see how they did recognize him. Luke 24:28 "And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further." Luke 24:29 "But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them." Luke 24:30 "And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them." Luke 24:31 "And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight."

by what he did, they KNEW who he was then.

101G.

 

[Ancient Soul]

In John 1:18, it says, 'No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him'.

If John is correct, as I believe he is, then we need to understand more about the 'face' of God. For the 'face' and 'countenance' of the LORD appears numerous times in scripture. Here's a taster:

Genesis 32:30. 'And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face [Heb. panim], and my life is preserved'.

Exodus 33:11. 'And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face [Heb. panim] , as a man speaketh unto his friend'.

Exodus 33:20. 'And he said, Thou [Moses] canst not see my face [Heb. panim]: for there shall no man see me, and live'.

Numbers 6:25. 'The LORD make his face [Heb. panim] shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:'

Psalm 17:15. 'As for me, I will behold thy face [Heb. panim] in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness'.

Psalm 105:4. 'Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face [Heb. panim] evermore'.

Ezekiel 39:29. 'Neither will I hide my face [Heb. panim] any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD'.

1 Corinthians 13:12. 'For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face [Gk. prosopon]: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known'.

Is it possible to see God's 'face'?

NO!!!

God is a purely SPIRITUAL being, and so very much NOT a physical being/person.

One's soul can "meet" God, but that's another topic too hard to put into words.

 

[Ancient Soul]

No gods are known to exist, so get your imagination to work. We atheists will keep you guys rooted in reality.

LOL

 

[F1fan]

Exodus 20:2 "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. "Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" Exodus 20:5 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

And what do Christians do? Create a figure of Jesus on an execution device and put it in churches, worn on clothes, and jewelry. Why, because what else says "love" than an image of a person being executed as God required?

 

[101G]

And what do Christians do? Create a figure of Jesus on an execution device and put it in churches, worn on clothes, and jewelry. Why, because what else says "love" than an image of a person being executed as God required?

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." for God is a Spirit, and must be worship in spirit and TRUTH.

and what is "REQUIRED" of God? answer, the same yesterday, as today, and tomorrow. Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

that's all.

101G.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hard to say. If Yahweh is spirit, he has no face, yet there are many verses regarding his body parts and what he does with them.

What does that tell you? It tells me that the Old Testament is anthropomorphic.
Only humans have a face. God is not a man who has a face.

 

[Trailblazer]

So the Face of God they talk about is the Messiah of the end of ages, the one that will fulfill the promises as recorded in all the scriptures.

Jesus was also the Face of God, according to Baha'u'llah.

“Israel refused to apprehend the meaning of such words as have been revealed in the Bible concerning the signs of the coming Revelation. As she never grasped their true significance, and, to outward seeming, such events never came to pass, she, therefore, remained deprived of recognizing the beauty of Jesus and of beholding the Face of God.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 20-21

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Is it possible to see God's 'face'?

No.

For unlike the Son, born into flesh, God is not incarnated and has no worldly shape or form.

God “speaks” in concepts, but Man can only spread God’s message in words. Scripture is that: Divine concepts put into the words of Man.

[Divine] Meaning in Scripture, lay not in its words but in the concepts found beyond them. So is it too for its use of “face”.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Redemptionsong]

I think Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward.

Hebrews 1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

I'm not so sure it is clear and straight forward.

God is Spirit. Spirit is without form, unless a form is created, in which case formlessness (the incorporeal nature of God) is withdrawn. God (the Father) cannot be uncreated and created.

Or, have l got this wrong?!

The 'express image of his person' could be a spiritual likeness, not a physical likeness. If it's the spiritual that matters, then the likeness is most likely to be spiritual, and unseen, rather than observable.

 

[Redemptionsong]

No.

For unlike the Son, born into flesh, God is not incarnated and has no worldly shape or form.

God “speaks” in concepts, but Man can only spread God’s message in words. Scripture is that: Divine concepts put into the words of Man.

[Divine] Meaning in Scripture, lay not in its words but in the concepts found beyond them. So is it too for its use of “face”.


Humbly
Hermit

If what you say is true, then there are many passages in scripture that are hard to explain.

Take, for example, the interaction of Moses with God at Mount Sinai.

Exodus 33:22,23 says, 'And it shall come to pass , while my glory passeth by, that l will put thee in a clift of a rock, and will cover thee with my hand while l pass by:
And l will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shalt not be seen'.

Are we to understand this as a spiritual message without any consideration for the physical terms used? Is it that Moses didn't see (with his eyes) any 'hand', 'back parts', or 'face' of God?

 

[Redemptionsong]

God, do he change? no, "I change not", meaning in some kind of deception? no. when the priest and prophet Ezekiel saw God and his throne that he sat on, it was the same when John saw him on the throne in Revelation. as well as the prophet Isaiah. so, the track record is the same.

but what about him, God, in flesh? listen, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" 1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:" 1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."

so the body that the Lord Jesus rose in was not exactly the same..... in appearance. because many spoked with him but did not recognize him, (by FACE) right off. supportive scripture, Luke 24:13 "And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs." Luke 24:14 "And they talked together of all these things which had happened." Luke 24:15 "And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them." Luke 24:16 "But their eyes were holden that they should not know him." Luke 24:17 "And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?" Luke 24:18 "And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?" Luke 24:19 "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:"

so they didn't recognize him by FACE. but let's see how they did recognize him. Luke 24:28 "And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further." Luke 24:29 "But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them." Luke 24:30 "And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them." Luke 24:31 "And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight."

by what he did, they KNEW who he was then.

101G.

Yes, l think that we recognise Christ not by appearance so much as by righteousness. One could argue that Satan is capable of deceiving us by appearance.

Psalm 17:15. 'As for me, I will behold thy face [Heb. panim] in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness'.

When we awake, in resurrection, we awake with the likeness of his righteousness, which is actually His Spirit received at baptism.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Are we to understand this as a spiritual message without any consideration for the physical terms used?

I’d say so, yes.

Do you read it as a mundane text about a god in the shape of a gigantic man, putting a little man in a cave and covering it with his massive hand so that the little man cannot see the gigantic god-man’s face, do you mean?

Why would such an interpretation be of relevance? What relevance has Scripture to Man if not a spiritual one?


Humble
Hermit

 

[101G]

Yes, l think that we recognise Christ not by appearance so much as by righteousness. One could argue that Satan is capable of deceiving us by appearance.

Psalm 17:15. 'As for me, I will behold thy face [Heb. panim] in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness'.

When we awake, in resurrection, we awake with the likeness of his righteousness, which is actually His Spirit received at baptism.

Agreed.

101G.

 

[Kenny]

I'm not so sure it is clear and straight forward.

God is Spirit. Spirit is without form, unless a form is created, in which case formlessness (the incorporeal nature of God) is withdrawn. God (the Father) cannot be uncreated and created.

Or, have l got this wrong?!

The 'express image of his person' could be a spiritual likeness, not a physical likeness. If it's the spiritual that matters, then the likeness is most likely to be spiritual, and unseen, rather than observable.

I think you have described Philippians 2 as we remember that for God, nothing is impossible. Remember, even angelic spirits can manifest in a natural spiritual body that is seen (Genesis has examples)

We could say that my spirit (that cannot be seen) is reflected in the same likeness as my body. One reflects the other without diminishing who we are.

God created a body (John 1) in which The Word was placed in and like unto our on body, it is the image and likeness of God. So I would conclude that indeed, God Spirit that cannot be seen was seen in the image of the body created.