Is it right?

[Draka]

I don't know. I think I have to disagree with you about the gay guy in college thing there kadzbiz. If the boy is getting something that the father is willingly giving to him to better his life and this is what is affording him his education, then that is supposed to be a gift of love. If the father turns out to be a bigot and telling the father that the son is gay suddenly makes the father not care enough about his son to possibly ruin his chance at a proper education...why should the son have to pay for that? Why should the son suffer because of the hateful stupid thing his dad may do?

The money would be put towards his college education if he was straight, and should be if he is gay too. Because, fact is...the money should be considered put towards his education because of love. Which shouldn't end because of sexual orientation. It is possible that the son may permanently lose his relationship with his father, should he take the chance of losing his shot at an education and good career as well?

Honestly, I don't believe anyone should have to hide any part of who they are, but the fact remains that some people can be cruel, and sometimes the safest and wisest thing to do is to keep your mouth shut until the "right time". It all depends on the situation and the aspect of a person being kept hidden. I don't think that all cases can be judged the same. But that's just me.

 

[Bathsheba]

is it right to hide or omit something about yourself so as to gain something in return that would not have eventuated if the hidden or omitted was known?

Jesus tap dancing Christ!

Of course there are situations where it is "right to hide or omit something about yourself so as to gain something in return that would not have eventuated if the hidden or omitted was known". Everything from the crude or absurd (concealing a bad gas condition on a first date - HELLLLLOOOOO!!) to life threatening situations (deceiving a criminal attacking you, to avoid harm) can rightfully allow for deception to gain an advantage.

Seriously, just use your imagination and come down from the morality soapbox.

Most people are unconscious of a lot of their bull ****, and I doubt you are an exception.

 

[kadzbiz]

..... If the father turns out to be a bigot and telling the father that the son is gay suddenly makes the father not care enough about his son to possibly ruin his chance at a proper education...why should the son have to pay for that? Why should the son suffer because of the hateful stupid thing his dad may do?
........ It is possible that the son may permanently lose his relationship with his father, should he take the chance of losing his shot at an education and good career as well?........

That's a fair point you make Draka. I guess I feel inside that I'd not be fair to myself if I took money from someone I disliked just because I'd like the money. I would feel it was tainted somehow, but that's just me.

Jesus tap dancing Christ! Of course there are situations where it is "right to hide or omit something about yourself so as to gain something in return that would not have eventuated if the hidden or omitted was known". Everything from the crude or absurd (concealing a bad gas condition on a first date - HELLLLLOOOOO!!) to life threatening situations (deceiving a criminal attacking you, to avoid harm) can rightfully allow for deception to gain an advantage. Seriously, just use your imagination and come down from the morality soapbox. Most people are unconscious of a lot of their bull ****, and I doubt you are an exception.

Whoa, maybe you should smell the milk before you taste that it's sour. I can't imagine why else you'd have your sharp claws out so menacingly. Sheesh.

Okay, okay, I admit the dating this is a great example negating my comment, but in reality, such vain things aren't generally a problem later in a relationship, but if you concealed that you were a rapist, well, that may make a difference eh? With regards to being a victim of crime, of course you can lie, et cetera to stop becoming a victim. I'm sure you know what I was getting at in the OP.

As far as your last two sentences go, please read my OP again. Did I actually provide my opinion, or was I asking a question and asking for opinons and comments? Hmm? As for imagination, sometimes comments are made without having encompassed all possibilities and RF members help broaden our horizons, which is a great thing. If we felt we didn't need our horizons broadened, we probably wouldn't need to be on RF because we'd know everything.

Let's see now, if I look carefully down from the dizzying hieghts of my "morality soapbox" I do believe that you appear to be one of those people who are very conscious of their bull***.

 

[blackout]

My parents paid for my college.
I did LOTS of stuff I didn't tell them about.

And so what?

I got good grades.
Learned to play Jazz Piano.
Completed my BFA.

THAT was relevant to them paying for my college.

And SURE I kept stuff to myself
to keep my mom from worrying and freaking.
What would have been the point!

 

[DallasApple]

Intent would come int play I believe..

For instance my son got a non violent felony for drug possesion 5 years ago..He paid his debt by completeting his probation and paying his fines 1 and 1/2 years ago..He is off the drugs and has been for quite some time...

Now who is going to hire him and what kind of jobs can he get wehn he checks the yes box on a job application for being convicted of a felony?Some contruction jobs...

What is his intent if he lies?..His intent is to be able to work and earn enough money to be able to be on his own two feet and help support his baby thats coming.Not to rip someone off..To work and get paid for it..Thats not taking advantage of someone..its trying to survive against discrimination.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Nanda]

Thats not taking advantage of someone..its trying to survive against discrimination.

I agree.

In the specific case of the kid in the other thread, I don't see that as greed at all, Kadz. I see that as self preservation.

 

[Draka]

That's a fair point you make Draka. I guess I feel inside that I'd not be fair to myself if I took money from someone I disliked just because I'd like the money. I would feel it was tainted somehow, but that's just me.

But nothing is mentioned about the son disliking his father. He may love his father very much. It is just that he may be scared to death of all the ramifications of telling his father that he is gay. He may wish that things go well after telling his father, but he realizes that things may not. Isn't that being practical?

 

[Starfish]

Inspired by another thread, it is right to hide or omit something about yourself so as to gain something in return that would not have eventuated if the hidden or omitted was known? Like, let's say I ran for election and accepted the votes of blacks, but in actual fact I was a racist? Isn't it really just like stealing? How is it any different to renting a room for the night by making the owner think you're going to pay and then just doing a runner in the morning? In law (here in my state), it's called "gaining financial advantage by deception" and punishable by five years or more imprisonment. Comments anyone?

Hmmm. Well, if we are hiding something about ourselves because we are ashamed of it and are trying to change--then I don't see why the world needs to know about it. (unless the fault is dangerous to others.) Probably everyone does this.

But if we see no wrong in the thing we are hiding, and have no intention of changing; if we only hide it to gain some advantage--then this is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is wrong.

 

[Draka]

Hmmm. Well, if we are hiding something about ourselves because we are ashamed of it and are trying to change--then I don't see why the world needs to know about it. (unless the fault is dangerous to others.) Probably everyone does this.

But if we see no wrong in the thing we are hiding, and have no intention of changing; if we only hide it to gain some advantage--then this is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is wrong.

Is it hypocrisy to keep an aspect about yourself private if it is possible that its exposure will cause YOU damage? In some places, and around some people, it can be outright dangerous, and even deadly, to reveal something along the lines of being homosexual or transgendered or so on. Perhaps you need to keep your job because you need the income, but some people you work with happen to be dangerous bigots...you keep your mouth shut to not only keep your job, but your physical safety as well. You keep quiet until you can get yourself out of the situation you are in and get into a safer one. That's not being a hypocrit, that's being smart and safe.

 

[Starfish]

Is it hypocrisy to keep an aspect about yourself private if it is possible that its exposure will cause YOU damage? In some places, and around some people, it can be outright dangerous, and even deadly, to reveal something along the lines of being homosexual or transgendered or so on. Perhaps you need to keep your job because you need the income, but some people you work with happen to be dangerous bigots...you keep your mouth shut to not only keep your job, but your physical safety as well. You keep quiet until you can get yourself out of the situation you are in and get into a safer one. That's not being a hypocrit, that's being smart and safe.

If that aspect does not endanger anyone else, like the example you gave, then there's no reason to even bring it up. In fact, with the case of sexual preferences as well as many other personal subjects, I'd rather it never came up.
My husband has employees in his business. Even though we don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, we don't care if any of our employees are homosexual, as long as it stays completely out of the workplace. Just like we don't want to hear, see, or know about the sex lives of ANY of our employees. However, for example, if an employee had AIDS and if it was a type of work that might endanger the health of anyone else; then we'd need to know.

So some things can remain personal and confidential, and some things, that might affect others, must be disclosed .

 

[Starfish]

Here's a scenario I've witnessed. My friend's son was engaged to a girl living in a foreign country. Their courtship was mostly online and by phone. Should he have told her before the wedding that he had suffered from bouts of depression? I said yes. My friend saw no reason to.

I think anyone has the right to know nearly everything about the person they plan to marry.

 

[Inky]

My husband has employees in his business. Even though we don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, we don't care if any of our employees are homosexual, as long as it stays completely out of the workplace. Just like we don't want to hear, see, or know about the sex lives of ANY of our employees. However, for example, if an employee had AIDS and if it was a type of work that might endanger the health of anyone else; then we'd need to know.

So some things can remain personal and confidential, and some things, that might affect others, must be disclosed .

Exactly. That's why I think a college student is within their rights to not tell their father if they're gay, but they shouldn't keep secrets about their grades or other things that are actually relevant to their education.

 

[Michel07]

I think most of this boils down to the balance of the right to privacy in one's life along with the responsibility to others. Some things need to be said but many don't because they might be issues of the past and while it may be frank to disclose all, if it has no concrete benefit or may even be counterproductive what would be the point given the individual also has the right to personal privacy.

 

[kadzbiz]

Intent would come int play I believe......What is his intent if he lies?..His intent is to be able to work and earn enough money to be able to be on his own two feet and help support his baby thats coming.Not to rip someone off..To work and get paid for it..Thats not taking advantage of someone..its trying to survive against discrimination.

This is a very good point DA. It is indeed a difficult situation. Ticking a box and waiting for a reply is IMO the wrong approach. Personally, I would speak the the manager/employer and lay it on the line about my past and that it was behind me and that I just wanted to work to raise my family. You have to understand that businesses want to protect themselves and their employees. It's a crap process of just going by what paperwork says. Applicants need to be spoken to in person, to get a feel etc. I'm not judging your son, but at the same time, if you look at it from the employer's POV, they're making a choice from applicants who have and have not done things in their life. The probability it may happen again and affect their business appears on the surface to be more likely with a convicted person. I would suggest your son confront employers one on one and lay it on the line IMO.

I agree. In the specific case of the kid in the other thread, I don't see that as greed at all, Kadz. I see that as self preservation.

But nothing is mentioned about the son disliking his father. He may love his father very much. It is just that he may be scared to death of all the ramifications of telling his father that he is gay. He may wish that things go well after telling his father, but he realizes that things may not. Isn't that being practical?

Regarding the gay kid in the other thread, I don't know whay he wants to say anything. It's because he is considering telling his dad that I gave the response I did. The kids' orientation is none of dad's business, so the kid should just keep on attending college and accepting dad's funding. But because the kid is weighing it all up and making it an issue that may have unwelcome results, then this is why I say that if he goes and tells dad, that the kid shouldn't worry about losing the funding if his dad is an idiot and disowns his son and cuts the funding. Does that make sense?

Hmmm. Well, if we are hiding something about ourselves because we are ashamed of it and are trying to change--then I don't see why the world needs to know about it. .......

Society just wants to feel protected whether it actually is or isn't.

I think most of this boils down to the balance of the right to privacy in one's life along with the responsibility to others. Some things need to be said but many don't because they might be issues of the past and while it may be frank to disclose all, if it has no concrete benefit or may even be counterproductive what would be the point given the individual also has the right to personal privacy.

We can never have true privacy. Whilst it is legal for employers to know intimate details about our lives, we are bound to reveal such things else we get caught out down the track and found to be liars as well, even if we were just trying to get ahead in the world without ever hurting anyone.

 

[Michel07]

We can never have true privacy. Whilst it is legal for employers to know intimate details about our lives, we are bound to reveal such things else we get caught out down the track and found to be liars as well, even if we were just trying to get ahead in the world without ever hurting anyone. [/quote]

I think you might have overlooked the first sentence in my post but also the variables available here are astronomical in terms of examples.

 

[kadzbiz]

I think you might have overlooked the first sentence in my post but also the variables available here are astronomical in terms of examples.

I didn't miss it. Your balance point is right, but who is deciding that and is it balanced? There's a whole new argument.

 

[Michel07]

I didn't miss it. Your balance point is right, but who is deciding that and is it balanced? There's a whole new argument.

And not one that I can actually answer. I do get my thoughts on that from a perspective of believing in forgiveness not only for others but for oneself. So it can get complex. Forgiveness though means just that. Some things people need to let go.
What if a girl had some problems and was a prostitute for a short time in her youth and 10 years later she meets mister right. Does she tell him and risk it all or does she bury it and move on? That would be something for the individual to decide and based upon their conscience in my view.

 

[kadzbiz]

And not one that I can actually answer. I do get my thoughts on that from a perspective of believing in forgiveness not only for others but for oneself. So it can get complex. Forgiveness though means just that. Some things people need to let go. What if a girl had some problems and was a prostitute for a short time in her youth and 10 years later she meets mister right. Does she tell him and risk it all or does she bury it and move on? That would be something for the individual to decide and based upon their conscience in my view.

True enough. Risking being shot down or given opposing examples, I would like to believe that if there was no negative impact whatsoever, then an ommission regarding one's life isn't a bad or wrong thing. How does that sit with you all?