Is it unpatriotic to not support a war?

[NoName]

I'm sorry if this has been done before, but with what I've seen in threads recently, I seem to get the impression that some people think it's unpatriotic to not support a war. I don't believe this at all. One of the best things about this country is that (for the most part) you're allowed to freely voice your opinions, whether or not they're the same as the government's. It would seem at least somewhat patriot to take advantange of that right. The less patriot thing, in my opinion, is to tell the dissenters to shut up. Yes, you're just taking advantage of your right to express your opinion, but by telling others that they for some reason have less of a right to do so than you do.

 

[ALifetimeToWaitFor...]

Not supporting war in the US is synonomous with unpatriotic apparently throughout history. Although during vietnam people started to see that we actually can screw up. I think that alot of people are tired of this war and wont continue to support it. This country was founded on war and has been saved, economically, by war. War is our industry and were damn good at it. Its to bad isnt it.

 

[Sunstone]

You can be a patriot and not support a war if you believe that war is not in the best interests of your country.

 

[Aqualung]

No, you're not unpatriotic if you don't support war. I used to be quaker, and while I myself didn't buy into their beliefs, I saw them getting called unpatriotic all the time. Kind of dumb.

ALifeTimeToWaitFor... - I agree that war can pull us out of economical slumps, but only if it's done right. You can't have a war and tax breaks etc.

 

[Jaymes]

I'd rather follow what I consider to be moral than what I consider to be patriotic. If it's unpatriotic to not support a war, so be it.

 

[almifkhar]

one can never be a true patriot if one blindly believes in what the government says. it is our job as citizens to question the government. standing up for what is right, and calling for job termantion of our leaders if they become drunk with power is what our founding fathers encouraged. this is what they stressed to the people. we must question their actions and let them know when they have gone too far, for if we don't we will surly be on the road to tryanny, and this is not what america is supose to be about.

 

[NoName]

I'd rather follow what I consider to be moral than what I consider to be patriotic. If it's unpatriotic to not support a war, so be it.

Good for you. But is it unpatriotic to not support a war?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

There's a bumper sticker I like, though I don't know if I'm quoting it correctly- "Calling others 'unpatriotic'- itself unpatriotic."

 

[NoName]

There's a bumper sticker I like, though I don't know if I'm quoting it correctly- "Calling others 'unpatriotic'- itself unpatriotic."

Ah, yes. While I am not familiar with the bumper sticker, that's what I believe, too. While they're being unpatriotic, however, I still think they have the right to voice their opinions. Although that's a bit off subject.

 

[Sunstone]

If you believe your country is involved in a war that is not in the best interests of your country, then I think you would be unpatriotic if you nevertheless supported that war.

 

[Todd]

Good for you. But is it unpatriotic to not support a war?

No, it's not unpatriotic to not support a war (I think that's a quadruple negative ).

I think you can still be patriotic and not support a war. I support our troops and everyone that protects this country, but I might not support the political stance on the war.

 

[Jaymes]

Good for you. But is it unpatriotic to not support a war?

I'd say it's the opposite.

 

[Sunstone]

To support a war that you believe is wrong for your country is like supporting a friend when he decides to do something you believe will injure him. It is neither true friendship, nor true patriotism, to support a friend, or to support your country, in a wrong course of action.

 

[Valjean]

I find it curious that throughout this thread people consistently assured the political doves that their patriotism remains intact and unquestioned. I get the distinct impression that patriotism itself is being treated as an unquestioned virtue rather than a grievous and virulent fault.

 

[Sunstone]

I find it curious that throughout this thread people consistently assured the political doves that their patriotism remains intact and unquestioned. I get the distinct impression that patriotism itself is being treated as an unquestioned virtue rather than a grievous and virulent fault.

There are excesses of patriotism. Unfortunately, we don't have a word for that. Nationalism comes close, but doesn't quite do it. I think when patriotism is taken to excess, it is no longer a virtue, but a vice; just as when most virtues are taken to excess, they turn into vices.

 

[Darkdale]

Given the broad effects of war, I don't mind people that don't support it, but I do mind when they threaten the security of our nation by trying to undermine the war effort. You simply cannot both love your country and at the same time try to hurt your country.

 

[Sunstone]

Given the broad effects of war, I don't mind people that don't support it, but I do mind when they threaten the security of our nation by trying to undermine the war effort. You simply cannot both love your country and at the same time try to hurt your country.

Darkdale, where you draw the line between not supporting a war, and undermining a war effort?

 

[Valjean]

There are excesses of patriotism. Unfortunately, we don't have a word for that. Nationalism comes close, but doesn't quite do it. I think when patriotism is taken to excess, it is no longer a virtue, but a vice; just as when most virtues are taken to excess, they turn into vices.

The word you're looking for is chauvinism or jingoism, and our disagreement seems to be quantitative. Ie: Patriotism is to chauvinism as a cold is to influenza -- one is milder, but they're both diseases.

I see supporting a specific government above others and without regard to the policies of that government to be treading a slippery slope. I choose to support or oppose specific policies rather than the legislative body generating them.

Darkdale:
If undermining an evil policy is equivalent to undermining the country promulgating it, well, so be it. It is the duty of the righteous to eschew evil, and of the courageous to actively oppose it. One should not support the bad guy just because "he is us."
If it were expected that large numbers of people would rise up against unjust policies governments might be a bit less rapacious.

Eg: We honor the White Rose Society. Weren't they trying to undermine their government? And, now that I think of it, wasn't the United States born of a massive insurrection against its government? Your position here would put you in opposition to that insurrection, calling your patriotism into question. :sarcastic

 

[Sunstone]

Sey, I agree with your brilliant analysis of Darkdale's position, but I don't see patriotism as a disease. That's probably because I don't see true patriotism as blind support for a government. To me, patriotism is support for my community first and foremost, and support of the government only when I believe the government is acting in the best interests of my community. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Valjean]

Perhaps our differences lie in our conception of "patriotism."

I see patriotism as something more than support for one's community. That's just being a good neighbor or having a social conscience. And supporting the government only when it supports the interests of your community doesn't sound at all patriotic to me.

Patriotism, it seems to me, is unjustified identification with the coercive agency that chances to lay claim to your particular piece of real estate. This all too easily leads to support for policies detrimental to coercive agencies -- governments -- other than one's own (and, in the case of Republicans, policies detrimental even to their own interests. ). Thus, "patriotism" all to easily leads to a sort of national soccer hooliganism.

Many patriots so identify with "their government" that they actually believe they're its property. They feel the government has a right to coerce service from them in exchange for "services" they never contracted for. They'll unthinkingly march off to ruin the lives of other poor dupes laboring under the same delusion.

OK, I'm getting carried away here. Sorry.

Your turn, Sunstone. How do you see patriotism?