Is Jesus Eternal?

[SalixIncendium]

Eternal, by definition, is that which lasts forever; without beginning and without end.

Jesus was born. We know this because his birth is celebrated on this day every year by Christians worldwide.

I've also heard it said that Jesus is eternal. Is this possible? If His beginning is celebrated each year, he obviously has a beginning. So how is it possible that Jesus is eternal?

 

[Rival]

Thank you

 

[muhammad_isa]

Eternal, by definition, is that which lasts forever; without beginning and without end.

Jesus was born. We know this because his birth is celebrated on this day every year by Christians worldwide.

I've also heard it said that Jesus is eternal. Is this possible? If His beginning is celebrated each year, he obviously has a beginning. So how is it possible that Jesus is eternal?

I think that it depends on who you ask..

Are we referring to Jesus' body, or Jesus' soul/spirit?
All bodies are part of the creation.

It is debatable whether souls/spirits are part of the creation..
They certainly aren't part of the physical creation.

I believe that ALL souls/spirits belong to God.
..that they exist for eternity, as does God.

..so yes, in this context, Jesus is eternal .. but so are we all.

 

[Rival]

If you believe Jesus is the Word then yes, John 1 says the Word is God and as God is eternal so must the Word be.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jesus was born. We know this because his birth is celebrated on this day every year by Christians worldwide.

And Lakshmi was born. We know this because many associate that birth with the Diwali Festival of Lights.

Others might suggest that "we know because many believe" might be a less than convincing proclamation.

 

[Left Coast]

Eternal, by definition, is that which lasts forever; without beginning and without end.

Jesus was born. We know this because his birth is celebrated on this day every year by Christians worldwide.

I've also heard it said that Jesus is eternal. Is this possible? If His beginning is celebrated each year, he obviously has a beginning. So how is it possible that Jesus is eternal?

Christians argue that Jesus existed prior to his mortal form as God. So his human body had a beginning, but not he as God. He was "begotten, not made."

 

[Rival]

Christians argue that Jesus existed prior to his mortal form as God. So his human body had a beginning, but not he as God. He was "begotten, not made."

Come on, say it with me...

the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

through him all things were made.

 

[Left Coast]

Come on, say it with me

the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man!

(I hate that they added the stupid bow at that part).

 

[muhammad_isa]

Come on, say it with me

the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

through him all things were made.

Yeah, but that was dreamt up by goy, sitting around a table.

 

[Quintessence]

A couple things to consider -

• As with words more generally, "eternal" has several uses and definitions. Upon consultation, several make no mention of "without end or beginning" and one specifically mentioned its meaning within a Christian theological context. That meaning was: "used to refer to an everlasting or universal spirit, as represented by God."
• Conceptualizing birth as "beginning" or death as "ending" is a matter of perspective. Many traditions honor eternal cycles of change and transformation with no true birth/death, such as the harvest cycle, which Jesus can be seen as a variation of. The crops are sown, born, consumed, die, sacrificed, resown, over and over and over (aka, eternally).

The Christian perspective probably accounts the first more than the second; that is "eternal" refers to universal spirit. I'll defer to their theologians on the matter.

 

[Rival]

Yeah, but that was dreamt up by goy, sitting around a table.

Well, not quite. They were hammered out theological positions based on the Gospels and epistles etc. as well as the Tanakh. You may not agree with them but they can be defended if one believes in the truth of the NT.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well, not quite. They were hammered out theological positions based on the Gospels and epistles etc. as well as the Tanakh. You may not agree with them but they can be defended if one believes in the truth of the NT.

A four-gospel canon (the Tetramorph) was asserted by Irenaeus [c. 130 – c. 202] in the following quote: "It is not possible that the gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four-quarters of the earth in which we live, and four universal winds, while the church is scattered throughout all the world, and the 'pillar and ground' of the church is the gospel and the spirit of life, it is fitting that she should have four pillars.
...
By the early 3rd century, Christian theologians like Origen of Alexandria may have been using—or at least were familiar with—the same 27 books found in modern New Testament editions, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of some of the writings..
Biblical canon - Wikipedia

The Biblical canon evolved with these "four winds", and then we have..

The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325.

This ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all Christendom. Hosius of Corduba may have presided over its deliberations. Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the divine nature of God the Son and his relationship to God the Father.
First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia

..so we see that it is all based on political considerations, and based on denouncing "the heresies" of those with alternate belief.

 

[Rival]

..so we see that it is all based on political considerations, and based on denouncing "the heresies" of those with alternate belief.

This is just your biased reading thereof. There are real theological considerations here. We see this in the Church Fathers and pre-Constantine writings, the Apostolic Fathers. We see this in Clement, Shepherd of Hermas etc.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This might be an appropriate day to set aside mockery ...

 

[F1fan]

Eternal, by definition, is that which lasts forever; without beginning and without end.

Jesus was born. We know this because his birth is celebrated on this day every year by Christians worldwide.

It sounds like you are asking for religious interpretations and beliefs, not critical analysis of these concepts.

As we know theists will believe whatever they want, for the sake of believing whatever they want.

It is likely the Jesus story was cobbled together from Greek and Egyptian lore, and not a true story. The whole story is absurd at face value, so improbable.

I've also heard it said that Jesus is eternal. Is this possible?

Now this sounds as if you are asking for critical analysis, because theistds will jusyify any belief if they want to believe it. They don't follow an objective process. They will look at texts and find a way to justify belief in an idea and/or an interpretation, but this doesn't mean they examine the ideas objectively with tests in reality.

If His beginning is celebrated each year, he obviously has a beginning. So how is it possible that Jesus is eternal?

Isn't there a phrase that says "Everything is possible with God"?

But to answer this dilemma, many Christians divide Jesus' body from his spirit. The flesh dies while the spirit is eternal. It's the material and immaterial. This is how our souls end up in heaven or hell for eternity.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This might be an appropriate day to set aside mockery ...

I wonder if Jesus would consider my thoughts mockery..

Jesus taught us to worship God [our Father, whom art in heaven]
..insisting that one has to believe in a particular "formula", in order to do so .. hmm

 

[Windwalker]

Eternal, by definition, is that which lasts forever; without beginning and without end.

Eternal is generally conceived by people as time without end, a linear line continuing on into infinity. So they speak of the 'afterlife' with a mindset like linear time experienced in this life as a human, except instead of 80 years, it's infinite years.

But by saying without beginning, that gets rid of a linear time concept. Eternal is rather is the ever-present now within each moment of linear time. It is both inside and outside of time. Linear time is drawn upon the eternal, like words drawn on a blank sheet of paper. The paper is formlessness, the letters are form. The Eternal, is the formless, the timeless, reality upon which all time and all form come into being.

So, when someone says Jesus is eternal, that is pointing to that Divine eternal formlessness that manifest as that human in time who was born, lived, and died, just like anyone of us.

In other words, the Eternal, is Atman. It is Nirguna Brahman. It is the Tao. And it exists in all that is. The reason the focus is on Jesus as eternal, is not the flesh, but that he exposed that Eternal in himself. Other religions call that an Avatar of the Divine itself.

 

[paarsurrey]

Eternal, by definition, is that which lasts forever; without beginning and without end.

Jesus was born. We know this because his birth is celebrated on this day every year by Christians worldwide.

I've also heard it said that Jesus is eternal. Is this possible? If His beginning is celebrated each year, he obviously has a beginning. So how is it possible that Jesus is eternal?

I agree with one, (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah never claimed to be eternal, if some Hellenist Paulian aka " Christian" holds this concept, he is to quote from Yeshua in this connection in the first person in an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, please, right?

Regards

 

[muhammad_isa]

Every time you use the word goy in an inappropriate manner - which is every time you’ve used it in recent memory - someone should tell you to shut up..

They do..
Perhaps you could inform us how to use it appropriately.


73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! God is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God...
— Qur'an The Table Spread ---

 

[Windwalker]

I agree with one, (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah never claimed to be eternal, if some Hellenist Paulian aka " Christian" holds this concept, he is to quote from Yeshua in this connection in the first person in an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, please, right?

Regards

Are you saying the author of the gospel of John was Pauline? John 1:1 clearly identifies the Logos as eternal, which is identified later as becoming incarnate as Jesus in verse 14. Also, John has Jesus say "Before Abraham was, I AM," which is clear identification with the name of God used to Moses. So, John certainly had this idea of Jesus as the eternal manifestation of God in his mind as he wrote his gospel.