Is Jesus God?

[jchristopher]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

Yes, Jesus (Jehovah) is most certainly God, as he is a member of the Godhead along with our Eternal Father (Elohim), but no, they are not one in the same being. Jesus was selected to be our Savior before the earth ever came into being. He was appointed by the Father, along with Adam (Michael), to form the earth. It follows that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. In very few cases was God the Father's own voice ever manifest unto men in the flesh, and one of them was immediately after Jesus was baptized by John.

 

[Orbit]

Yes, Jesus (Jehovah) is most certainly God, as he is a member of the Godhead along with our Eternal Father (Elohim), but no, they are not one in the same being. Jesus was selected to be our Savior before the earth ever came into being. He was appointed by the Father, along with Adam (Michael), to form the earth. It follows that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. In very few cases was God the Father's own voice ever manifest unto men in the flesh, and one of them was immediately after Jesus was baptized by John.

Where does this idea come from? Is it from a certain denomination?

 

[jchristopher]

Where does this idea come from? Is it from a certain denomination?

This doctrine is contained in the Bible, though not as explicitly put as I just did. After a study of the scriptures, it is obvious that Jesus and the Father had an intimate relationship but were not the same being. And the New Testament, particularly the book of John, points out that the Jesus was the Creator.

 

[Kolibri]

This doctrine is contained in the Bible, though not as explicitly put as I just did. After a study of the scriptures, it is obvious that Jesus and the Father had an intimate relationship but were not the same being. And the New Testament, particularly the book of John, points out that the Jesus was the Creator.

Jesus is never called the Creator. Doing so takes away from the honor belonging to the Great Architect. Better to recognize him as the "master worker" that worked alongside his father. (Prov 8:30)

Remember all credit goes back to the Father.

"You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created" - Re 4:11

 

[Orbit]

This doctrine is contained in the Bible, though not as explicitly put as I just did. After a study of the scriptures, it is obvious that Jesus and the Father had an intimate relationship but were not the same being. And the New Testament, particularly the book of John, points out that the Jesus was the Creator.

This wasn't "obvious" in my denomination. What denomination are you that you were taught this?

 

[jchristopher]

Jesus is never called the Creator. Doing so takes away from the honor belonging to the Great Architect. Better to recognize him as the "master worker" that worked alongside his father. (Prov 8:30)

Remember all credit goes back to the Father.

"You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created" - Re 4:11

Jesus is Jehovah. Read John 1:1-3. The Father (Elohim) only speaks in the Bible a couple times. By the Son were all things done under the direction of the Father.

 

[jchristopher]

This wasn't "obvious" in my denomination. What denomination are you that you were taught this?

Sorry, "obvious" wasn't the appropriate word. I guess what I'm saying is, what is your independent evaluation of the scriptures regarding this issue, without the denominational spin?

 

[Kolibri]

Jesus is Jehovah. Read John 1:1-3. The Father (Elohim) only speaks in the Bible a couple times. By the Son were all things done under the direction of the Father.

Mormons are the only ones I know of that teach Jesus is Jehovah and the Father is Elohim. That is not my reason for disbelieving that teaching though.

Psalm 2 separates Jehovah from his king. So does the 110th Psalm.

There are contrasting ways to translate John 1:1, so it can't be used as a proof text. Here is how I am used to reading those verses you asked me to read.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (or "was divine.") This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one things came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it." - John 1:1-5

Notice, please the difference between "through him" and the "by your will" of Revelation 4:11. Solomon built the temple but not literally. Yet he is accredited it because he oversaw and directed the work. Thus Jehovah oversaw and directed the creating of all other things thru Jesus. But credit goes to the one who "willed" it to be.

 

[jchristopher]

Mormons are the only ones I know of that teach Jesus is Jehovah and the Father is Elohim. That is not my reason for disbelieving that teaching though.

Psalm 2 separates Jehovah from his king. So does the 110th Psalm.

There are contrasting ways to translate John 1:1, so it can't be used as a proof text. Here is how I am used to reading those verses you asked me to read.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (or "was divine.") This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one things came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it." - John 1:1-5

Notice, please the difference between "through him" and the "by your will" of Revelation 4:11. Solomon built the temple but not literally. Yet he is accredited it because he oversaw and directed the work. Thus Jehovah oversaw and directed the creating of all other things thru Jesus. But credit goes to the one who "willed" it to be.

How does Psalms 2 indicate Jesus and Jehovah aren't one in the same? And of course the glory goes to the Father. He is the grand architect, as Jesus did all things under His direction. As far as I can tell, the scripture only indicates that there is a distinction between the Father and the Son. But I don't believe Jehovah is the Father.

P.S. How do you "proof text" the Bible?

 

[katiemygirl]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

It's a no brainer. Jesus is God.

John wrote, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."

ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

 

[katiemygirl]

Mormons are the only ones I know of that teach Jesus is Jehovah and the Father is Elohim. That is not my reason for disbelieving that teaching though.

Psalm 2 separates Jehovah from his king. So does the 110th Psalm.

There are contrasting ways to translate John 1:1, so it can't be used as a proof text. Here is how I am used to reading those verses you asked me to read.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (or "was divine.") This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one things came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it." - John 1:1-5

Notice, please the difference between "through him" and the "by your will" of Revelation 4:11. Solomon built the temple but not literally. Yet he is accredited it because he oversaw and directed the work. Thus Jehovah oversaw and directed the creating of all other things thru Jesus. But credit goes to the one who "willed" it to be.

There is only one way to translate John 1:1, and that is how it has been consistently translated for 2000 years. The verse is simple and straightforward. The NWT has twisted that verse along with many others. There is no "a god." It simply says "and the word was God.

 

[The Real Milk Man]

John 14:24, "....... and the word (logos) which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me."

... and the word (logos) was God's.

 

[katiemygirl]

John 14:24, "....... and the word (logos) which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me."

"... and the word (logos) was God's."

John 1:1..."and the word was God."

 

[bretzter]

No,Jesus is not God,but the Word of God.
And not just a prophet,but as he himself said"more than a prophet".
Were to actually be God,he would not have said that his Father was
greater than he was,or that he can/could do nothing of his own accord.
And were he to be God,he wouldn´t have left his followers in suspense
as to the exact time of the end of this system,although he did give them
signs of it.
Rather he said that of that time,nobody knows,not angels,not the Son,
but only God.
And in the NT,Jesus was known to pray continuously.
Who then was it he was praying to if he were to be God?.
God would not speak to himself like some mentally disturbed individual.
Or in the Book of Revelation,after Christs thousand year reign,to whom
is it he will return the kingdom to,but as he said,he who gave it to him.
Actually there are many more verses in the NT that show Jesus is
not to be confused with his being equal to his Father,who is God.
Actually I believe he existed from the beginning,in heaven,the very first
of all of Gods creations before God sent him to earth to walk among
men,so as to make himself just like them.
And if Jesus while on earth,wasn´t of God,one with God,there´s no
way he could have performed the miracles he´d performed.

 

[katiemygirl]

Jesus is never called the Creator. Doing so takes away from the honor belonging to the Great Architect. Better to recognize him as the "master worker" that worked alongside his father. (Prov 8:30)

Remember all credit goes back to the Father.

"You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created" - Re 4:11

Are you kidding? You're saying Jesus is not the creator of the universe?

John 1:3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[katiemygirl]

No,Jesus is not God,but the Word of God.
And not just a prophet,but as he himself said"more than a prophet".
Were to actually be God,he would not have said that his Father was
greater than he was,or that he can/could do nothing of his own accord.
And were he to be God,he wouldn´t have left his followers in suspense
as to the exact time of the end of this system,although he did give them
signs of it.
Rather he said that of that time,nobody knows,not angels,not the Son,
but only God.
And in the NT,Jesus was known to pray continuously.
Who then was it he was praying to if he were to be God?.
God would not speak to himself like some mentally disturbed individual.
Or in the Book of Revelation,after Christs thousand year reign,to whom
is it he will return the kingdom to,but as he said,he who gave it to him.
Actually there are many more verses in the NT that show Jesus is
not to be confused with his being equal to his Father,who is God.
Actually I believe he existed from the beginning,in heaven,the very first
of all of Gods creations before God sent him to earth to walk among
men,so as to make himself just like them.
And if Jesus while on earth,wasn´t of God,one with God,there´s no
way he could have performed the miracles he´d performed.

John 1:1 plainly says the word was God. Why don't you accept what it says?

 

[Nada]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

This is a wide and accepted theory based on wrong interpretations and misconceptions of men.The truth is there is no trinity, and Jesus is not God the Almighty.He is the Son of God the Almighty.When Jesus says he and the father are one,Jesus speaks of a spiritual union,not a literal one.The holy spirit is never mentioned in this verse being in union with Jesus and God.Not only this but Jesus calls God, his God, and the peoples.God the Almighty does not pray or have a God he worships.Here are some passages that show what I speak of.

John 10:29,30.…29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

(the holy spirit is never mentioned in union with them.)

If people think that it is a literal union Jesus speaks of, here is a passage that will clarify that it is only a spiritual union.

John 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

So if people are under the impression that it speaks of a literal union,then this passage would mean that the people are also part of a trinity.

Of course this is not true.It is a misconception.Also,the holy spirit again is never mentioned in this union.It is between God,Jesus and the faithful followers.

John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

These passages clearly show that Jesus was a servant of God the Almighty, and worshipped Him.It also shows that there is no trinity like many assume.It is a spiritual union,not a literal one.



Jesus did exist before his human existence.He was a spirit who was with God.He came to earth and accomplished his mission.Died and was risen.He then ascended back to heaven where he is a spirit once more.It was Jesus that was with God the Almighty when man was being created.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

Proverbs 8:22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

Proverbs 8:30 English Standard Version
then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,


The truth of the matter is that many do not have an accurate knowledge of the truth.Many go by what religious establishments say and teach which is always unbiblical and according to traditions and man made beliefs.Many need to actually pray,read and study the holy scriptures to fully understand.Many believe these establishments with billions of people is the way.The HS says the opposite.

Matthew 7:13 New International Version
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

 

[Nada]

Are you kidding? You're saying Jesus is not the creator of the universe?

John 1:3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It is saying that all was made through him and for him.
John 1:3 American Standard Version
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

Jesus was with God in the beginning.Read Proverbs 8:22

Proverbs 8:22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

Jesus was with God in the garden of eden when man was being created.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

 

[Nada]

John 1:1 plainly says the word was God. Why don't you accept what it says?

God the Almighty does not have a God for He is the Almighty.Jesus clearly makes it known that he worships God the Almighty and is a servant of God.

Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

So here we have Jesus praying to God and asking permission.Jesus also makes it clear who's will it is.

Here Jesus is stating who is in charge and the Almighty.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

So we have Jesus making it known that God the Almighty is his father and God.

 

[katiemygirl]

This is a wide and accepted theory based on wrong interpretations and misconceptions of men.The truth is there is no trinity, and Jesus is not God the Almighty.He is the Son of God the Almighty.When Jesus says he and the father are one,Jesus speaks of a spiritual union,not a literal one.The holy spirit is never mentioned in this verse being in union with Jesus and God.Not only this but Jesus calls God, his God, and the peoples.God the Almighty does not pray or have a God he worships.Here are some passages that show what I speak of.

John 10:29,30.…29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

(the holy spirit is never mentioned in union with them.)

If people think that it is a literal union Jesus speaks of, here is a passage that will clarify that it is only a spiritual union.

John 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

So if people are under the impression that it speaks of a literal union,then this passage would mean that the people are also part of a trinity.

Of course this is not true.It is a misconception.Also,the holy spirit again is never mentioned in this union.It is between God,Jesus and the faithful followers.

John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

These passages clearly show that Jesus was a servant of God the Almighty, and worshipped Him.It also shows that there is no trinity like many assume.It is a spiritual union,not a literal one.



Jesus did exist before his human existence.He was a spirit who was with God.He came to earth and accomplished his mission.Died and was risen.He then ascended back to heaven where he is a spirit once more.It was Jesus that was with God the Almighty when man was being created.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

Proverbs 8:22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

Proverbs 8:30 English Standard Version
then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,


The truth of the matter is that many do not have an accurate knowledge of the truth.Many go by what religious establishments say and teach which is always unbiblical and according to traditions and man made beliefs.Many need to actually pray,read and study the holy scriptures to fully understand.Many believe these establishments with billions of people is the way.The HS says the opposite.

Matthew 7:13 New International Version
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

If you say you go by the Scriptures, then how can you say Jesus is not God when John said the word was God?