Is Jesus God?

[mehrosh]

what? the word in question is 'monogenes' which means "only born" Are you saying someone made it up when it was translated? I'm so confused!

One can argue that the term given to Jesus in some versions of the Bible is different, that is, 'the begotten son of God'. Yet, The word begotten has been removed from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (that goes to the 'most-ancient' manuscripts) by highly esteemed 32 Christian Biblical scholars backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations, they tell us (in the RSV) that through their study of recently discovered manuscripts of the Bible they have found many 'grave and serious defects' in the King James Version of the Bible. You can verify this by reading the first few pages of the RSV, PREFACE page iii and iv. ..........................In the language of the Jews. the word 'son' has a metaphoric meaning as well. Thus, the term 'son of God' is used in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments to signify good, righteous people

 

[mehrosh]

I don't have a Bible at hand right now, but I believe he's saying that later translations, such as the RSV leave out the word begotten." I'm still trying to figure out why he's obsessing about this...the Bible isn't even his holy book...

Brother why do you need to have the Bible at your hand...don't you know your Bible well? I am not obsessing about all this.....and I being a Muslim Believe in the Gospel of Jesus...you can't say that it is not my holy book....the difference in that we believe but don't follow because we believe it is corrupted by the people (and that is what the christians too agree with) we believe that after Bible, The Quran is the word of God, and it is unchanged, not even a letter has been changed from it, "Say O People of the Book, come to common terms between you and us, that we worship none besides One God...."why I am stressing on this topic is simple...to show my Christian Brothers that Jesus Peace be upon him is not the Son of God, but the Prophet of God....and I have given my proofs in this concern....the fact remains untouched that Jesus never said "I am God, worship me" and In the language of the Jews. the word 'son' has a metaphoric meaning as well. Thus, the term 'son of God' is used in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments to signify good, righteous people . Thanks...and regards..

 

[michel]

Brother this Belongs to the Bible?

You are correct; I apologise, silly mistake;

From the KJV:-

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(Defender's notes)

The Son is eternally in the Father's "bosom" and eternally proceeding as the "only begotten Son" (Greek monogenes), uniquely different from the many other sons of God (angels are also called "sons of God" as are all those men and women who have been born again through faith in Christ). Those modern translators who delete the word "begotten" here are not only wrong in translation but also in allowing dangerous heresy in the understanding of the nature of Christ.
As the living Word, the Son reveals and speaks for the Father.

His unique Sonship required the virgin birth and was proved by the resurrection (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33; Romans 1:4; John 5:26).

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Defender's notes:-

There are several senses in which Christ is the only begotten Son of God, but the emphasis here is on His resurrection from the dead, as evident from the quotation of this verse in Acts 13:33. He was "declared to be the Son of God with power,...by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4). He was also called the "firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18) and the "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5; Hebrews 5:5).

 

[hanif]

There Is No God Except God.god Is Only One.(we Can Say To Him Yahve Or Allah)jesus Is Different Person From God.

 

[michel]

There Is No God Except God.god Is Only One.(we Can Say To Him Yahve Or Allah)jesus Is Different Person From God.

To you, in Your religion, maybe, but not to a Christian. This is a Biblical debate; do you use the Bible, or the Qu'ran ?

 

[Super Universe]

Jesus says many times in the bible that He is the Son of God. We are all sons of God.

Jesus also said "Only through me can God be found." He said this because He was representing the truth, forgiveness instead of revenge.

Jesus was representing God on earth and wished to bring people to Him to listen, learn, and follow.

 

[Popeyesays]

Jesus says many times in the bible that He is the Son of God. We are all sons of God.

Jesus also said "Only through me can God be found." He said this because He was representing the truth, forgiveness instead of revenge.

Jesus was representing God on earth and wished to bring people to Him to listen, learn, and follow.

Where in the Gospels, out of the mouth of Jesus, do the words come: "Son of God"?

Only in the Gospel of John:
"5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."
(King James Bible, John)

"10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."
(King James Bible, John)
Which is in total agreement with the text of the TaNakh that all men and women are sons and daughters of God, this is not a claim to a special status on His part.
"11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby."
(King James Bible, John)

Hewre when faced with the question of the High Priest, Jesus switches the term completely:
"26:62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
(King James Bible, Matthew)

Son of Man is scripturally a different kettle of fish entirely, and Jesus is much more likely to call Himself the "Son of Man" than the "Son of God" as shown by the quotes above.

Regards,
Scott


"

 

[mehrosh]

You are correct; I apologise, silly mistake;

From the KJV:-

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(Defender's notes)

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
>

Thankyou for quoting the verses....Well I don't understand that why then the word "Begotten" is removed from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (that goes to the 'most-ancient' manuscripts) by highly esteemed 32 Christian Biblical scholars backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations, they tell us (in the RSV) that through their study of recently discovered manuscripts of the Bible they have found many 'grave and serious defects' in the King James Version of the Bible. You can verify this by reading the first few pages of the RSV, PREFACE page iii and iv. There are many contradictions in the Bible as we were already discussing in another thread, and one of my Christian brother had also claimed there are....and human hands have done there work....so you cannot claim just because it is (or was) in the Bible that Jesus is GOD's Begotten son so he is....You can niether say "he is" nor can you say "he is not"....Do you agree?

 

[mehrosh]

To you, in Your religion, maybe, but not to a Christian. This is a Biblical debate; do you use the Bible, or the Qu'ran ?

Not only to us....Your God and Our God is One......I disagree with the point that in a Biblical debate you cannot use the Qu'ran....It will be like you tell me that in a Murder trail...don't use the eye witness.....The Quran testifies the previous scriptures one of which is Gospel of Jesus, It testifies the spirit was breathed into Mary....It talks about Jesus by name at 25 places...It contains messages directly for the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) It testifies that on the day of Judgment when God will saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying) : Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.....thus Quran plays a very important role in a Biblical debate....If you mind it...kindlly give a good reason....Thanks for reading and Regards..

 

[Popeyesays]

Michel,

This is a Biblical Debate forum true enough. However you supply NO FORUM AT ALL for the debate of other scriptures. You also provide no forum where scripture can be compared - one faith to another.

Until you guys do that, you're going to ban Quran and other quotations from this forum?

Regards,
Scott

 

[mehrosh]

Apostle John wrote, Jesus was "an Unique son" of God... Apologist Jerome made him "the Begotten son" of God... The world famous 'Anchor Bible' and 'Gideon Bible' provide the substantiation... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------The George Washington University...During my bible study in 1992, I wrote a letter to department of the New Testament, at the George Washington University, Washington, D.C., USA. My request was to elucidate the popular term from John's Gospel, the "only begotten son", in relation to the original Greek text written by the Apostle. Below is a copy of the scholarly response that I received, from the University. The then Assistant Professor of Religion, Paul B. Duff, now enjoys the privileged position of Chair, Department of Religion at the George Washington University:

The above illumination is based upon the work of a scholar of international repute, Dr. Raymond Brown. It informs us that the innovated concept of Jesus being the "only begotten son" of the Father was developed in the fourth century. It was injected by Jerome into the Latin Bible to refute the claims made by Bishop Arius (d. 336) and his associates that Father alone was really God and Jesus was made (created) and not begotten. For further information it is suggested to read the detailed text written by Dr. Brown in the 'Anchor Bible' Volume 29, 'The Gospel according to John (i)', published by Doubleday Inc., Garden City, N.Y. (1966), p. 13-14. Apostle John had acknowledged Jesus to be an "unique son" of God but not the "only begotten son" of God. It is quite understandable that since Jesus was born to Virgin Mary he was indeed unlike others and therefore unique. However, in that respect Adam the son of God (Lk. 3: 38), was more unique being born without a father and a mother.