Is Jesus God

[Karl R]

JESUS NEVER DIRECTLY CLAIMED IN CLEAR CONCISE WORDING TO BE G-D!

Yes He did:

John 10:30 I and the Father are one! ​

​

As I said earlier, if Jesus is speaking literally, he's claiming to be god. However, if he's speaking metaphorically, he might only be describing a different metaphysical point of view.​

Look at the world from a pantheistic or panentheistic point of view. From those points of view I could make the following statements:​

Karl R and god are one.
AlanGurvey and god are one.
Snowbear and god are one.
Karl R and AlanGurvey and Snowbear are one.​

What I'm asserting from a pantheistic or panentheistic point of view is that Karl R, AlanGurvey, Snowbear and god are all the same thing, and any separations we see between them are merely illusions.​

It all depends on whether Jesus was speaking literally or metaphorically at that point, and Jesus would speak in metaphors some of the time. I can't state with certainty which he was doing at that moment in time.​

However, before you decide that Jesus must be speaking metaphorically, you might want to consider the implications of pantheistic and panentheistic views. From that perspective, not only is god every baby that craps his or her diaper, god is also the crap in the diaper.​

 

[Murtaza]

About my link, i said i put some space between the word "google." and "com"
put them together and you'll get it

video.google.com/videosearch?q=deedat+is+jesus+god

alternatively, just go to google video and type in "deedat is jesus god"


My intention was not to degrade anyone's beliefs. If it seemed that way then i assure you its not.
I worded them in a certain way so my point would be clearer.
But still it seems most of you took it as an offensive attack.

You don't seem to understand rhetorical questions. When i asked "Did Mary think...." you took the question literally and answered yes or no.

Another point was made that God became human to experience what its like to be human. I don't believe God has to become human to experience what it feels like. I believe God is All-Knowing, he created humans and he knows how their mind works and doesn't need to become human to have the knowledge.

Similarly, i don't believe God would go and burn himself in hell just to know what its like to be those humans who are going to go to hell.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

Similarly, i don't believe God would go and burn himself in hell just to know what its like to be those humans who are going to go to hell.

ummm. i never said that. god does know everything. he came down to connect to us on our level. also he didnt burn in hell. he freed people from hell.

 

[Murtaza]

video.google.com/videosearch?q=deedat+is+jesus+god

its fixed now
just copy and paste it

 

[Murtaza]

about Jesus saying "I and the father are one"

do you take a verse like that to be the basis of your belief? isn't it possible Jesus could be talking metaphorically?

I would suggest you to look at John 17: 20-22 where Jesus says "That they ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in
them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".

In this verse, the same word ONE is used not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods.

w w w.answering-christianity.com/john10_30.htm

i have put some space between www since you can't post links if you have less than 15 posts​

 

[michel]

video.google. com/videosearch?q=deedat+is+jesus+god

i put some space between "google" and ".com" because i am not allowed to post links
please put the together to get the link


i would just recommend that christians who believe Jesus is God should watch those videos.

The fact that Jesus is not God is pretty common sense. You believe that God came out of a waman's private parts covered in filthy blood and other disgusting fluids. The fact that you take God to be so low is quite disgusting in my opinion.

Imagine what must be going through Mary's mind when she was giving birth to Jesus. Did she think she was giving birth to her God?
Did she think she was wiping her God's backside everytime Jesus went to the toilet as a baby? (the God she was supposed to worship)

On the 8th day after Jesus was born did the priest who was circumcising him think that he was cutting his God's penis?

In many parts of the bible Jesus is always asking for God's help? For the Father's help. Now Jesus being God wouldn't need to be asking someone else for help. Jesus was talking to God. You either say there is more than 1 God or you accept jesus is just a man of God

I have to say that I agree with Kathryn (Katzpur); the way you have worded your post is, IMO, offensively and crudely put.

As a Trinitian, I accept God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as different facets of the one God. I really have to wonder why Muslims have to keep asking the same question, over and over again....................

 

[Snowbear]

about Jesus saying "I and the father are one"

do you take a verse like that to be the basis of your belief? isn't it possible Jesus could be talking metaphorically?
​

No. The basis of my faith is the Hope that the God who cannot lie made a promise.

In this case no, I don't think Jesus was speaking metaphorically. I quoted the verse in context to show that the jews asked the same question that was asked here and did in fact answer it.

A lot of people take a single verse, or even a single word, out of context and interpret it to make whatever point they want to make. When the books and letters of the bible were written, they were not broken up into chapters and verses. That came much later. So to me, part of the study of the bible involves looking at the context in which stuff was written.

 

[Abram]

I like to think Jesus is God. I'm glad God became man and walked with us and showed us the right way to live. Being human we love to compare ourselves to other humans.
Jesus did claim to be God and you can twist and torchier the text to try to elude from the fact, but thats what the entire Bible is about. Your doing Just what the Bible says not to do. Denying God, who is Jesus.

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me." John1:1

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
Bold statement unless your God.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
Whos commandments?

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:10
As Karl R was saying in a earlier post.

Now if Jesus sat at a throne and said worship me for I am God. It would make God a man and thats it. But he's smarter than that. He came in the form of a man and acted like he wanted us to act. Do as I do! Worship my father because thats what he wants from us. When he left us he wanted us to keep loving the father.

This is the same thing the Jews had a hard time with when Jesus was here. They wanted God to come and be all powerful and pass judgement on all the world. (I promise this is the last thing we want). They Pictured God as something else. Well I'm sorry to tell you God is humble and loving and wants nothing more from us then to be more like him. Loving and humble.

We should thank him for becoming a man, experiencing all the pains and temptations we face. But we instead try to take this from him, his way of say "I understand what your going through."

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed." John 20:27-29

 

[Defij]

We need to recognize the theological diversity of the New Testament. The case can be made that Jesus is God, by using quotes from the books in the New Testament that have a high Christological view in them (the book of Colossians comes to mind, as well as the Book of Hebrews and especially the Book of John). However, as critical New Testament scholars, let us not be ignorant to the diversity offered in it. There are other books that can be used to show a very distinct and almost inferior position that Jesus has in relationship to God the Father (The Gospel of Matthew, a very Jewish Gospel, comes to mind). These do not have a high Christological view and can be used to "debunk" if you will, the Trinity. Keep this in mind when using quotes from the New Testament as if they are the end all be all.

I personally (for whatever it is worth) do agree that Jesus is God, however I also understand the theological diversity in the New Testament, and would even go as far as to say that a belief in the Trinity is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. Don’t let that trip you up. It is pretty clear that some of our New Testament writers did not necessarily view Jesus as God, and they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Murtaza]

Lol, again taking verses out of context

You're forgetting that the eastern languages are full of similies and metaphors. Jesus himself says to the jews "is it not written ye are gods?". Are you going to take that literally to mean the jews are all gods?

Jesus, the father and the holy spirit are not one, Jesus seperates himself from the father more than making himself one with God

he says "worship the father, my God and your god, my father and your father", now if Jesus is not seperating himself from God i don't know what that verse is saying

no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

muslims believe the same, you can't get to God without believing in Jesus, doesn't mean he's God

ye believe in God, believe also in me

"me" (Jesus) seems to be seperating himself from god. The Quran does the same, it says to believe in God and believe in his messenger

these are desperate attepmts to try and twist words to make it sound like what you believe is correct

In this case no, I don't think Jesus was speaking metaphorically. I quoted the verse in context to show that the jews asked the same question that was asked here and did in fact answer it.

like i said, he says the same about his desciples


In the end, if Jesus was god he'd be going around claiming so, but no, he didn't do that
the first thing Muhammad did when he started preaching (and carried on throughout his life) is tell people he's a messenger, you don't find Jesus doing that.
he kept claiming to be here to do God's work, just what a prophet does

and other times when he needed help he prayed to God, just like any man, he wouldn't need to do that if he's God himself

just who was Jesus crying to when he was on the cross? the father? but the father is god. In other words, jesus was crying for help to God
so now you have 2 gods

 

[sandy whitelinger]

video.google. com/videosearch?q=deedat+is+jesus+god

i put some space between "google" and ".com" because i am not allowed to post links
please put the together to get the link


i would just recommend that christians who believe Jesus is God should watch those videos.

The fact that Jesus is not God is pretty common sense. You believe that God came out of a waman's private parts covered in filthy blood and other disgusting fluids. The fact that you take God to be so low is quite disgusting in my opinion.

Imagine what must be going through Mary's mind when she was giving birth to Jesus. Did she think she was giving birth to her God?
Did she think she was wiping her God's backside everytime Jesus went to the toilet as a baby? (the God she was supposed to worship)

On the 8th day after Jesus was born did the priest who was circumcising him think that he was cutting his God's penis?

In many parts of the bible Jesus is always asking for God's help? For the Father's help. Now Jesus being God wouldn't need to be asking someone else for help. Jesus was talking to God. You either say there is more than 1 God or you accept jesus is just a man of God

Your ignorance of Scripture is too profound to attempt to correct what you have offered. You may want to start with Proverbs 17:28 or this from Hebrews 2

"[17] Therefore he [Christ] had to be made like his brethren in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make expiation for the sins of the people.
[18] For because he himself has suffered and been tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted. "

 

[Ody]

Your ignorance of Scripture is too profound to attempt to correct what you have offered. You may want to start with Proverbs 17:28 or this from Hebrews 2

"[17] [Christ]

Shows that its your interpretation, not pure factual evidence.

 

[sojourner]

In the end, if Jesus was god he'd be going around claiming so, but no, he didn't do that
the first thing Muhammad did when he started preaching (and carried on throughout his life) is tell people he's a messenger, you don't find Jesus doing that.
he kept claiming to be here to do God's work, just what a prophet does

and other times when he needed help he prayed to God, just like any man, he wouldn't need to do that if he's God himself

just who was Jesus crying to when he was on the cross? the father? but the father is god. In other words, jesus was crying for help to God
so now you have 2 gods

Jesus was also fully human. That meant that he acted like a human, ate like a human, relieved himself like a human, and was born like a human...and related to the Father like a human. Philippians tells us that, thought Christ was in the form of God, he emptied himself, taking the form of a servant. In that case, being fully human, Jesus would have to pray, just like other humans, in order to maintain relationship with the Father.

Incidentally, Jesus was more than just a prophet. A prophet proclaims the messages of God. Jesus also preached, healed, cared for people, proclaimed the coming of God's kingdom, sent out apostles, and became the expiation of all human sin. Much, much more than a prophet.

Yes, Jesus was crying out to the Father. And the Father is God just like Jesus is God. Don't you think the three persons of the Godhead should communicate? do you think they need human permission in order to do so? The Jesus part of God was crying out the the Father part of God. What seems so odd about that to you? Sometimes, as a son part of my family, I talk to the father part of my family...even though we are separate persons of the same family identity, even though we are equal human beings, and even though we take up equal space in the household, we still ought to communicate, don't you think?

 

[michel]

Lol, again taking verses out of context

You're forgetting that the eastern languages are full of similies and metaphors. Jesus himself says to the jews "is it not written ye are gods?". Are you going to take that literally to mean the jews are all gods?

Jesus, the father and the holy spirit are not one, Jesus seperates himself from the father more than making himself one with God

he says "worship the father, my God and your god, my father and your father", now if Jesus is not seperating himself from God i don't know what that verse is saying


muslims believe the same, you can't get to God without believing in Jesus, doesn't mean he's God



"me" (Jesus) seems to be seperating himself from god. The Quran does the same, it says to believe in God and believe in his messenger

these are desperate attepmts to try and twist words to make it sound like what you believe is correct



like i said, he says the same about his desciples


In the end, if Jesus was god he'd be going around claiming so, but no, he didn't do that
the first thing Muhammad did when he started preaching (and carried on throughout his life) is tell people he's a messenger, you don't find Jesus doing that.
he kept claiming to be here to do God's work, just what a prophet does

and other times when he needed help he prayed to God, just like any man, he wouldn't need to do that if he's God himself

just who was Jesus crying to when he was on the cross? the father? but the father is god. In other words, jesus was crying for help to God
so now you have 2 gods

Murtaza,

You are once again trying to understand (I hope) Christianity viewed from the perspective of the Qu'ran. That is like measuring the differences in taste between certain apples, using flavours of oranges.

If you really want to understand the Christian One God , you need to put on "Christian glasses" to achieve that; while you continue to look through your "Qu'ranic glasses", of course you won't understand.

There is nothing wrong with your beliefs, as there is nothing wrong with Christianity, but the two are not the same, and one belief cannot be used to argue a point in the other's belief.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Shows that its your interpretation, not pure factual evidence.

Could you possibly explain this cryptic remark?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Jesus was also fully human. That meant that he acted like a human, ate like a human, relieved himself like a human, and was born like a human...and related to the Father like a human. Philippians tells us that, thought Christ was in the form of God, he emptied himself, taking the form of a servant. In that case, being fully human, Jesus would have to pray, just like other humans, in order to maintain relationship with the Father.

Incidentally, Jesus was more than just a prophet. A prophet proclaims the messages of God. Jesus also preached, healed, cared for people, proclaimed the coming of God's kingdom, sent out apostles, and became the expiation of all human sin. Much, much more than a prophet.

Yes, Jesus was crying out to the Father. And the Father is God just like Jesus is God. Don't you think the three persons of the Godhead should communicate? do you think they need human permission in order to do so? The Jesus part of God was crying out the the Father part of God. What seems so odd about that to you? Sometimes, as a son part of my family, I talk to the father part of my family...even though we are separate persons of the same family identity, even though we are equal human beings, and even though we take up equal space in the household, we still ought to communicate, don't you think?

I think that Christianity has been failing to come up with an adequate metaphor to describe the Trinity for quite a long time.

Do you mean that you are father and son at the same time and you talk to yourself? If not, then your metaphor fails because human beings, while "equal" from a certain point of view, are not equal in a similar or parallel sense that God is Father - Son - Spirit - God all at the same time - three persons - One God.

It is an exceptionally difficult concept.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Could you possibly explain this cryptic remark?

Alan - I thought that you were perfectly clear.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Alan - I thought that you were perfectly clear.

Since there was no interpretation offered and factual evidence was never part of the conversation I'm sure that made pertfect sense to you.

 

[Ody]

Could you possibly explain this cryptic remark?

You HAD to imput the word "Christ" for it to prove your point...

 

[Michael333]

The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians, who clearly understood them in the sense that we do today—that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).

By the way, Replying back with hateful, offended, and demeaning remarks does not help the person who is confused and lost in their religious life. I also suggest researching other religions other than christianity in order to find common grounds for a fruitful conversation with those of other religions. Once this is established, you can then open the hearts and minds of those 'who are willing to listen'. For the initial comment, and everyone in general, you should research the history of your church/religion. When, where, and how did it originate? Do you even know your own religion well enough to be defending it -- Properly??