Is Joy of Satan really THAT bad?

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Is that one of your 'trick questions'?

No. It's a pretty bald faced question.

I certainly don't subscribe to the hot mess that is the body of work that comprises the JoS literature and dogma, but there is certainly an argument to be made that it's *satanic*.

Certainly as much or moreso than the white light touchy feely position you have been shooting from for all these years.

 

[EtuMalku]

No. It's a pretty bald faced question.

I certainly don't subscribe to the hot mess that is the body of work that comprises the JoS literature and dogma, but there is certainly an argument to be made that it's *satanic*.

Certainly as much or moreso than the white light touchy feely position you have been shooting from for all these years.

Typically in occult circles no one can agree on a definition of what they follow, reducing that to not very much of being something.

As for the white fluffy whatever, you obviously know even less about what I am about. You're a humorous being with little substance , at least I find you to be.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Typically in occult circles no one can agree on a definition of what they follow, reducing that to not very much of being something.

As for the white fluffy whatever, you obviously know even less about what I am about. You're a humorous being with little substance , at least I find you to be.

Your opinion of me is irrelevant. If you have any critique of my ideas, feel free to make a thread for that. There's a fair deal of material that has been published online to work with, free of charge.

This thread, however, is about the JoS, and more specifically your claim that the JoS is not satanic or Satanists. As you didn't actually argue for your assertion, I feel no need to reply with a counterargument. Should you choose to offer one, I will do likewise.

 

[EtuMalku]

Your opinion of me is irrelevant. If you have any critique of my ideas, feel free to make a thread for that. There's a fair deal of materargument has been published online to work with, free of charge.

This thread, however, is about the JoS, and more specifically your claim that the JoS is not satanic or Satanists. As you didn't actually argue for your assertion, I feel no need to reply with a counterargument. Should you choose to offer one, I will do likewise.

I wouldn't waste my time making that argument here. If you want to argue with me I'm on Facebook, I'll gladly speak with you there.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I don't do social media, sorry.

 

[FooYang]

Yes, I've read their website. I've looked at the rituals. I've seen the Christian lash-back stuff on their page. A lot of people say "oh, Joy of Satan, that's not real Satanism, it's not a good site". It is extremist in some areas, I think to argue otherwise would be a waste of time. But, aside from the horrendous aesthetics on some of the pages, is the organization actually that bad, and misrepresenting, in terms of Satanic faith and practice? I mean I know they seem to draw quite a bit from Christian cosmology (as much as they seem to deny a Christian label) but beyond that I don't see a large difference of belief compared to other Theistic Satanists.

I downloaded a massive pdf of theirs and read through some of it, it was mostly a snooze. They're practically just another 'Satanic Temple', meh. I can't say I have any respect for atheism to begin with, so Joy Of Satan really doesn't have a good basis to appeal to me.
Their characterizations of the Abrahamic traditions leaves much to be desired (it's pretty much the same old LaVeyan/Dawkins/Harris kind of shallow antitheism).
Aside from them none of their 'racism' came off as very bright. They tend to lack continuity within a lot of their ideas, I'm not PC, so I don't really care about their views, they can have them. They would make more sense if they had a wider cultural backdrop to assert such things.

 

[Liu]

I downloaded a massive pdf of theirs and read through some of it, it was mostly a snooze. They're practically just another 'Satanic Temple', meh. I can't say I have any respect for atheism to begin with, so Joy Of Satan really doesn't have a good basis to appeal to me.
Their characterizations of the Abrahamic traditions leaves much to be desired (it's pretty much the same old LaVeyan/Dawkins/Harris kind of shallow antitheism).
Aside from them none of their 'racism' came off as very bright. They tend to lack continuity within a lot of their ideas, I'm not PC, so I don't really care about their views, they can have them. They would make more sense if they had a wider cultural backdrop to assert such things.

Huh? Can't believe I'm arguing in favor of JoS - but they are no atheists. They believe that both Satan and the Christian god literally exist and that they would be at war against each other on some other planets, and that you can pray to Satan and thereby telepathically communicate with him. And they believe in the supernatural.
Very different from TST (who I actually kinda like - and far from all members of TST are atheists either).
But yeah, about the rest, full agreement.

 

[EtuMalku]

I downloaded a massive pdf of theirs and read through some of it, it was mostly a snooze. They're practically just another 'Satanic Temple', meh. I can't say I have any respect for atheism to begin with, so Joy Of Satan really doesn't have a good basis to appeal to me.
Their characterizations of the Abrahamic traditions leaves much to be desired (it's pretty much the same old LaVeyan/Dawkins/Harris kind of shallow antitheism).
Aside from them none of their 'racism' came off as very bright. They tend to lack continuity within a lot of their ideas, I'm not PC, so I don't really care about their views, they can have them. They would make more sense if they had a wider cultural backdrop to assert such things.

Agreeing with Liu, TST is nothing like the JOS . . . and JOS is Neo-Nazism disguised as theistic Satanism.

 

[FooYang]

Huh? Can't believe I'm arguing in favor of JoS - but they are no atheists. They believe that both Satan and the Christian god literally exist and that they would be at war against each other on some other planets, and that you can pray to Satan and thereby telepathically communicate with him. And they believe in the supernatural.

Serious?
Well in the over several hundred pages I read, it had the usual "Satan and God are just myths made to control" blahblahblah crap. It seemed very anti-spiritual and very much like ToS from what I read, except for that ToS takes runofthemill liberal ideology whereas JoS takes supposed Neonazi ideology.
Maybe I should read more from them to confirm or not. However I didn't find much interested with what I read.
Aside from that, all I basically know about them in general is that they aren't really taken seriously by many and are hated by a lot of other Satanists who are going for a 'were all good guys' image.

 

[EtuMalku]

Serious?
Well in the over several hundred pages I read, it had the usual "Satan and God are just myths made to control" blahblahblah crap. It seemed very anti-spiritual and very much like ToS from what I read, except for that ToS takes runofthemill liberal ideology whereas JoS takes supposed Neonazi ideology.
Maybe I should read more from them to confirm or not. However I didn't find much interested with what I read.
Aside from that, all I basically know about them in general is that they aren't really taken seriously by many and are hated by a lot of other Satanists who are going for a 'were all good guys' image.

I don't know what 'several hundred pages' of JOS you've been reading but the TOS is nothing like the JOS, in fact Setians are very spiritual.

 

[FooYang]

I don't know what 'several hundred pages' of JOS you've been reading but the TOS is nothing like the JOS, in fact Setians are very spiritual.

Temple of Satan/Satanic Temple (NOT Set, lol).

 

[FooYang]

I should have realized that they would be mixed up, sorry.

 

[Liu]

Temple of Satan/Satanic Temple (NOT Set, lol).

Which of the two, they are vastly different groups
Temple of Satan is some fairly unknown theistic group (at least last time I checked) so you do probably mean The Satanic Temple (typically called TST).

I haven't read much original material by JoS, and the last time was a couple of years ago when someone mentioned that at least their meditation instructions would be decent enough. But their bad reputation was quickly confirmed.

 

[FooYang]

Which of the two, they are vastly different groups
Temple of Satan is some fairly unknown theistic group (at least last time I checked) so you do probably mean The Satanic Temple (typically called TST).

I haven't read much original material by JoS, and the last time was a couple of years ago when someone mentioned that at least their meditation instructions would be decent enough. But their bad reputation was quickly confirmed.

Yeah, I forgot the acronym was TST, lol. I don't talk or think about them much, so I guess it'd be easy to mix up the acronyms for ToS and TST, lol.
I didn't realize there was a "Temple of Satan" that was different to TST, the names are so similar but I clearly mean that antireligious political organization that just uses imagery for bland social activism (seriously, they could do far better).

Yes, JoS has various ritual and meditation practices, I haven't been compelled to try anything I've read though. As I said above though, from the several hundred pages of one of their books I read, I found it to be antitheistic, so I'm surprised to hear that they're apparently theistic satanists, it's strange to say the least.


edit, what I read was a compilation of around 500 pages of JoS's materials. It seems to get into demonology and stuff later on, so I can start to see where I was wrong now.

 

[Liu]

Yeah, I forgot the acronym was TST, lol. I don't talk or think about them much, so I guess it'd be easy to mix up the acronyms for ToS and TST, lol.
I didn't realize there was a "Temple of Satan" that was different to TST, the names are so similar but I clearly mean that antireligious political organization that just uses imagery for bland social activism (seriously, they could do far better).

My main relationship with TST currently is listening to the bi-monthly podcast "Black Mass Appeal" which is by some atheistic but in some sense religious Satanists who are their own group but are also all members of TST and do some political activism themselves.
They are skeptical of any paranormal beliefs, but open enough towards it to also interview and collaborate with theistic Satanists and the like.
And that seems to me how TST-members in general handle that, if they are not theists themselves. So I wouldn't call the TSTers as a whole anti-theist.

Regarding JoS - do your own research I guess, I don't feel any inclination to read their material again anytime soon.

 

[EtuMalku]

Temple of Satan/Satanic Temple (NOT Set, lol).

OOPS!

 

[FooYang]

Regarding JoS - do your own research I guess, I don't feel any inclination to read their material again anytime soon.

Honestly, me neither but I came across this thread and look were we are now

Anyway, interesting discussion, see you around, probably.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

That explains tedious amount of propaganda on the site. I didn't know about the site's authorship before and so I had the impression it was written by childish men who wanted to be edgy.

It's actually a childish middle aged woman that wants to be edgy.(and really hates Jews).

 

[Stanyon]

"I'd tell you to go to Hell but I work there and I don't want to see you everyday"
- Satan

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Yes, I've read their website. I've looked at the rituals. I've seen the Christian lash-back stuff on their page. A lot of people say "oh, Joy of Satan, that's not real Satanism, it's not a good site". It is extremist in some areas, I think to argue otherwise would be a waste of time. But, aside from the horrendous aesthetics on some of the pages, is the organization actually that bad, and misrepresenting, in terms of Satanic faith and practice? I mean I know they seem to draw quite a bit from Christian cosmology (as much as they seem to deny a Christian label) but beyond that I don't see a large difference of belief compared to other Theistic Satanists.

By "bad" if you mean cringey then definitely.

I will grant though that they do have a few interesting ideas. Their neonazism is boring and dry though, I've never found 'Nazism' (and it's related forms) particularly attractive, even when I had my phases where I leaned more to the right.