• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Judas Iscariot in heaven?

loopus

Loopy
It's My Birthday!
I'm even sure if I believe in an afterlife, so I can't answer the question, but it raise an interesting point.

Christians believe their souls are saved because Jesus was betrayed by Judas, was crucified and rose from the dead, resulting in the forgiveness of their sins.

If Judas is in Hell, Christians actually owe a greater debt to him than Jesus because he's still suffering for the part he played in the events that made their salvation possible, while Jesus is said to be in heaven.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
If Judas is in Hell, Christians actually owe a greater debt to him than Jesus because he's still suffering for the part he played in the events that made their salvation possible, while Jesus is said to be in heaven.
LOL! That's a novel interpretation. :rolleyes:
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Karl R said:
What makes you say that Judas was "destined or fated to betray Jesus"?

At the last supper, Jesus predicted that one of the apostles present would betray Jesus. At that point, Judas had already agreed to betray Jesus to the authorities. See Matthew 26, for example.

While Jesus had previously stated that he would be betrayed, he never stated who would betray him.

Someone need to betray Jesus, and it would seem a foregone conclusion that it would be Judas Iscariot.

Jesus knew who, and didn't do anything to stop Judas. Why?

Because from Christian point-of-view, Jesus had to suffer the arrest, flogging and crucifixion.

Do you see any other outcomes for Jesus and Judas with the betrayal/death/resurrection?

Also, if it was the will of God that Jesus and Judas would go through what they did in the gospels, then surely Judas was fated to betray the one he called Rabbi.

And the second thing, if Judas had already agreed with betraying Jesus to the authorities, then why in 3 out of 4 gospels (Matthew left this part out) that Satan entered into Judas at the Last Supper?

Was it really Judas' will that betray Jesus? Or was it the will of God, with the assistance of Satan?

And if Judas was move to act the way he did, from the will of God or Satan's possession of Judas, then could Judas really be held accountable for his action?

If you remember the story of David and Saul, God wanted to remove Saul from the throne and install David as the new king. And so David was fated to take the throne, because it was God's will. Do you remember how it began?

It began with God sending evil spirit, to inflict madness and paranoia on Saul. Don't you find it strange that it was spirit doing God's bidding, not Satan's. Likewise, it was God's will that Jesus would die on the cross (before he could be resurrected), but for this to happen, Satan had to take possession on Judas.

Before I continue, the next part would apply to Katzpur's response, as well as to Karl R. It would save me the trouble of answering twice.

Katzpur said:
Judas is not in heaven. He's likely in the Spirit Prison. I suppose it's conceivable that he could be forgiven for what he did, but I think the only one who can say for sure is God. If he betrayed Christ will an absolute knowledge that He was the Son of God, he would not be forgiven, but I know I'm not in a position to say what his spiritual convictions or true motives were.

Jesus had no animosity towards Judas, even knowing what would happen before, during and after the Last Supper. If this is so, then Jesus most likely had forgiven Judas.

So the question remains, did Judas went to heaven or not?
 
Last edited:

gnostic

The Lost One
GabrielWithoutWings said:
According to the Gospel of Judas, there is a good chance that he went back to the Pleroma.

If you're going by the 4 canonicals, most people might give him a passing nod before they condemn him to hellfire.

That would probably be the way I see it too, if I was "gnostic".

According to the last part of Apocryphon of John, Jesus' flogging, humiliation and death didn't happen at all. Jesus' flogging and death was elaborate illusion.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Without him Jesus wouldn't have been arrested and crucified...

Are we sure of that? The Jewish leaders and Romans were gunning for Jesus anyway. Sooner or later He would have been nailed (no pun intended).
 

Karl R

Active Member
if Judas had already agreed with betraying Jesus to the authorities, then why in 3 out of 4 gospels (Matthew left this part out) that Satan entered into Judas at the Last Supper?
Three of the four? Read Mark 14:10-20 and Luke 22:1-23. In three of the four gospels, Judas had already met with the chief priests prior to the last supper.

You seem to be quoting John 13:27: "As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him."

You also seem to be ignoring John 13:2: "The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus." So it's a little ambiguous, but it sounds like the betrayal may have already been in motion according to the fourth gospel as well. (John 12:4-6 states that Judas was stealing from the group's funds, which provides an existing motive which precedes any mention of Satan's involvement.)

You're also assuming that by entering Judas, satan was possessing him. It's possible that is meant as an indication that satan was tempting Judas. Unless satan was controlling Judas as a puppet, then Judas had free will to deny satan.

Was it really Judas' will that betray Jesus? Or was it the will of God, with the assistance of Satan?
According to christian doctrine, satan is also known as The Adversary. Satan does not assist god. Satan opposes god.

Also, if it was the will of God that Jesus and Judas would go through what they did in the gospels, then surely Judas was fated to betray the one he called Rabbi.
That's circular logic. You're assuming that Judas was fulfilling the will of god, then using that to prove that Judas was fated to betray Jesus.

Let's start with a different assumption: It's god's will that all people have free will.

If we start with that assumption, then we have to conclude that god wouldn't force Judas to betray Jesus, and satan couldn't force Judas to betray Jesus. Under that assumption, satan tempted Judas, Jesus predicted Judas' betrayal, and god permitted Judas' plans to succeed. But none of those prevented Judas from being responsible for his own decision.

Because from Christian point-of-view, Jesus had to suffer the arrest, flogging and crucifixion.
And Jesus could have been arrested without Judas' betrayal. If Judas hadn't led the pharisees and romans to Jesus, then Jesus could have shown up in front of the temple (where they'd have an easy time finding him). Judas isn't a necessary element for those events to transpire.

Someone need to betray Jesus, and it would seem a foregone conclusion that it would be Judas Iscariot.
In order to fulfill prophecy, someone had to betray Jesus. "Betray" is a broad term. Can you think of any other actions that might be considered a betrayal?

Peter swore that he'd never deny Jesus, then he did so three times within hours of giving his word. Most people would consider that to be a betrayal as well. It's not as severe as Judas' betrayal, but it is a betrayal. The same could be said of the other apostles/disciples desserting Jesus when he was arrested, tried, flogged and crucified.

No shortage of betrayals that day. Remove one and you can easily find a replacement. Judas wasn't necessary for the fulfillment of prophecy. He's just convenient.

Jesus knew who, and didn't do anything to stop Judas. Why?
Why did those crazy cultists poison themselves in an attempt to hitch a ride on a comet? They believed that their deaths would help them accomplish their ultimate goal.

Jesus saw his death as a necessary step towards his higher goal. Why would he do anything to stop someone who was facilitating his death? Jesus' actions were consistent with his belief.

Based on results, I would say that Jesus' belief was more correct than the crazy cultists' belief.

Do you see any other outcomes for Jesus and Judas with the betrayal/death/resurrection?
Sure.

Alternate History with slight modifications:
Judas doesn't betray Jesus to the chief priests. At the last supper, Jesus says someone present will betray him, but doesn't indicate who or how (and since the apostles didn't realize that Judas was the betrayer until after the arrest, even in John 13:21-30, it seems obvious that the conversation between Judas and Jesus was sufficiently ambiguous).

Jesus isn't arrested in the garden of gethsemane. After leaving the garden, he goes into Jerusalem and runs into a group of priests and guards who arrest him. (We're assuming Jesus is divine, and omniscience should make this kind of group easy to locate.)

The rest of the day's events (sans Judas' betrayal) transpire as recorded.

Option 1:
Judas is embezzling from the group's funds (as mentioned in John 12:4-6). After the resurrection/ascension, this action is discovered and is cast out of the apostles for betraying Jesus and the commandments. He is recorded as being the betrayer.

Option 2:
Judas wasn't a thief (or was never caught). In reviewing the fulfillment of prophecy, Peter's denial of Jesus is seen as being the betrayal which was foretold. Peter is recorded as being the betrayer.

And if Judas was move to act the way he did, from the will of God or Satan's possession of Judas, then could Judas really be held accountable for his action?
If Judas was a puppet (for god or satan), then Judas was not accountable for his actions.

But we are in a poor position to know whether Judas acted of his own volition, or whether he was being controlled by an outside force. You (apparently) believe that Judas was controlled by an outside force. I believe that Judas made his own choices.

Even if we assume accountability (or a lack thereof), that doesn't necessarily answer the question. Calvinists assume predestination, but believe some people end up in heaven, and some end up in hell. Universalists assume free will, but everyone ends up in heaven.

Therefore, not only is your perception of accountability based upon what you choose to believe, but your perception of a final outcome is also dependent upon belief, regardless of accountability.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
As everyone know Judas Iscariot was one of the 12 apostles, but betrayed Jesus for some silver coins, which eventually led to Jesus being crucified, death and resurrection. It would seem that Judas was destined or fated to betray Jesus, so he had no choice but to play the role he was given.

Judas' "betrayer" role was essential to the outcome for all 4 gospels. And essentially Judas was doing God's work. If this is true then he was just as important as the other apostles, including Simon Peter.

Without Judas there would be no betrayal and possibly no crucifixion, and the event may have played differently.

So my questions are these:

Did Judas Iscariot went to heaven? Or did he go to hell?

How would you know where he went or how he was "judged"?​

i think he should have gone to heaven...
he didn't lie, or did he?
if it weren't for judas, atonement wouldn't be possible. something jesus was reluctant to follow through with as he wanted his apostles to carry swords for protection and keep a look out in order to flee when his betrayer approached him...
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
@ Gjallarhorn:

My point exactly. I think the whole Judas-as-villain thing was concocted by the early church leaders (along with a lot of other silliness), probably at the Council of Nicaea, which determined which books would be in the bible,and which would be banned declared heretical. There is a gospel of Judas which paints him in a completely different light.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
If our salvation was dependent on Christ's crucifixion, and Christ's crucifixion was dependent on Judas' betrayal, and Judas is in hell for his betrayal, then what Judas did was not only necessary for our salvation but was indeed a far greater sacrifice than that of Jesus' (an eternity of damnation vs. chillin' on a cross for a few hours).
 
Last edited:

no-body

Well-Known Member
No. He did not go to heaven because he did not repent.

He threw back the silver pieces and hung himself, seems like repentance to me. Also Satan entered him, what if Satan had entered Peter or one of the other apostles? They weren't quite getting Jesus message completely either at the time.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
He threw back the silver pieces and hung himself, seems like repentance to me. Also Satan entered him, what if Satan had entered Peter or one of the other apostles? They weren't quite getting Jesus message completely either at the time.

a slight over sight...
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Judas did what he was supposed to do without being asked, fulfilling a destiny.
Peter, on the other hand, willfully said he'd never deny Jesus, but did it three times.

I don't get how Judas isn't seen in the light of an unquestioning disciple... or at least a more neutral light, AT LEAST.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
pegg said:
Matthew 26:24 True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written concerning him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been finer for him if that man had not been born.” 25 By way of reply Judas, who was about to betray him, said: “It is not I, is it, Rabbi?” He said to him: “You yourself said [it].”


Does it sound like Jesus was pleased with the work that Judas was doing?

You do realise that that there are several ways to interpret what Jesus said (26:24).

The one (interpretation) that stands out to me, is that the betrayer would regret it, just like Judas did, and he killed himself after Jesus was crucified.

But Jesus didn't seem to have any animosity towards to Judas at the Last Supper and when Jesus was arrested.
 
Top