Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Cause and effect.
I'm not privy to all the bs either, like placing karma into a role as some kind of divine cosmic scorecard of the universe.
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Is karma real?
- Thread starter Jeremiah X
- Start date
Cause and effect.
I'm not privy to all the bs either, like placing karma into a role as some kind of divine cosmic scorecard of the universe.
Karma is a word that gets thrown around all-too fast and loose, losing its true meaningS. Thank you New Age.
There is more than one type of karma (karma phala, "karmic fruit" to be precise):
There is more than one type of karma (karma phala, "karmic fruit" to be precise):
- Sanchita is the accumulated karma of all lifetimes. It's like a bank account that's added to and withdrawn from, over the full time that we are embodied; i.e. before moksha (liberation) after hundreds, thousands, maybe millions of years of lifetimes.
- Prarabdha is the karma that comes to fruition in this life, either as a blessing or biting you in the goolie.
- Kriyamana is everything that we do in the current life. All kriyamana karma goes in to that sanchita karma account and shows up in some future life.
- Nishkam is karma (action) done without any thought of results or for any desire ("duty for duty's sake"), selfless action. This is the karma (action) Sri Krishna talks about in the Bhagavad Gītā, 2.47 "To action alone hast thou a right and never at all to its fruits; let not the fruits of action be thy motive; neither let there be in thee any attachment to inaction".
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Usually Karma has to do with the effect of deeds done in your past life (or lives) on the present or your present life on the fiture
and usually it's only yourself being considered and sometimes an excuse not to help 'untouchable' down and outers who have to help themselves and no one can help them
In contrast, Psalm 15 has an individual (Jesus) who ascends the mount of the Lord by His meritorious deeds and is victorious
and in Psalm 24 he(Jesus) becomes the King who leads others who are justified and sanctified (the church) who receive blessing and righteousness from God as a gift. Faith being the fruit and good works being the root. In the Christian view there is one life of the believer ( 'inasmuch as we are appointed ot die oce and then comes judgement Hebrews 9:27 ) and the believers life is found in Christ's life. Death is crushed to death and life is theirs to live as they rest on Jesus 'Karma' and are transformed by it. so to speak.
and usually it's only yourself being considered and sometimes an excuse not to help 'untouchable' down and outers who have to help themselves and no one can help them
In contrast, Psalm 15 has an individual (Jesus) who ascends the mount of the Lord by His meritorious deeds and is victorious
and in Psalm 24 he(Jesus) becomes the King who leads others who are justified and sanctified (the church) who receive blessing and righteousness from God as a gift. Faith being the fruit and good works being the root. In the Christian view there is one life of the believer ( 'inasmuch as we are appointed ot die oce and then comes judgement Hebrews 9:27 ) and the believers life is found in Christ's life. Death is crushed to death and life is theirs to live as they rest on Jesus 'Karma' and are transformed by it. so to speak.
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks..
Nowhere Man;
I would agree - how could it actually be that at all ?..As said - if Karma is TRULY universal - then it has always existed for as long as the universe itself has existed - and that was long long LONG before ANY lifeforms arose to "score" any such "pioints" for a fictitious "god" to then keep tally of and give whats due accordingly..
Jainarayan;
Yes I agree with that also....The so called "new age wisdom" - is as said - poorly understood - re hash of ORIGINAL and legitimate spiritual knoweldge that mankind once had full access to but now near completely lost to us - thanks largely to ORGANISED RELIGION of course,and one western religion that bares my mates Name is the main culprit here for the western worlds complete lack of spiritual understanding...
The Eastern traditions - do at last have a distinct advantage when it comes to Divine truth - but also as said prior - these traditions still - are rooted firmly in the MORTAL and MUNDANE worlds - and by that I mean THIS realm of existance here, physical body plus several etheric realities we have termed "astral" - together these various layers of reality comprise that which I and Christ, call a "realm" - and at first this realm WE inhabit was ENTIRELY SEPERATE - purposefully hidden in fact - from the rest of the entire Creation...Therefore - before Christ - nobody had EVER had access to this Greater realm OR to the LEGITIMATE and FULLY Divine entities that abide there...In short - no mortal here, nor the god and angels "above" knew the truth that Christ came to give freely...He said that EMPHATICALLY and REPEATEDLY - the god of the bible is NOT the SOURCE of Creation itself - mankind has NEVER encountered that legitimate Source (except through Christ) - and He said just as emphatically that it was actually IMPOSSIBLE for a MORTAL and LIVING man to gain access to these Higher realms of existance...the mortal body must perish,die, release the Divine essence fully and comlpetly - the lower levels of the RESULTS of Karma - must be overcome first to allow this FULL TRANSCENDANCE to occur...Thus He said - Iam the way and ONLY way - none come to the Father (source of all) except they first BECOME CHRIST...
Do we realise here - these various forms and kinds of "karma" listed above..?...Do we see - they are the RESULTS of the process - they define the observable outcome once Karma has been utilised (either in ignorance or fully Self Conscious,Sentient) - but, they do not offer ANY EXPLANATION at all - for the process itself - how or why it should "be this way" - they merely point out the OBSERVABLE AFFECTS - and the CAUSE remains unknown,misunderstood...Of course this is so - we should EXPECT it to be so - for as said - all these gurus teachers and masters who give us these truths - are all themselves MORTAL and have no direct experiences of the things they give us as truth...They are not - reliable - wholly trustworthy - not even the religions themselves which are again MANS interpretations only - words on paper have many MANY meanings - the legitimate Divine truth is ALWAYS delivered though, Spirit to Spirit - this is of course - Gnosis..
Whilingmerc;
Yer so the RELIGION would have us believe - but as said - BY CHRIST - we simply cannot even trust that religion at all - you must come to HATE your parents He said - DAMN those pharisees teachers who neither have truth nor share it freely He warned...it may shock some - but Christ was NEVER a Jew - HE NEVER followed or advocated the Hebrew god Yahweh nor did He advocate ANY religious intistution - not even the one that bares His name...Instead as said - He advised to SHUN THEM ALL for they will all lead you in error He said - ONLY HE knows this crucial Source of Creation - its truly Universal "cause and affect" - its how why and wherefore fully and intimately disclosed by Him directly - now we have many many MANY contraditory source for this knowldge - some goes way way back long before Christ came among us - but understand fully here - those we took to be "gods" turn out to be actually not gods at all - they are ANGELS every last one of them - CREATURES like you and I - the RESULT of the Karmik Creation process - but not the SOURCE of it !!! IF this realm was once isolated as Christ said, then this would make perfect sense - fo rit means mankind has ALWAYS - right up to His arrival among us - mankind had ONLY EVER has contact withe SAME group of Angels that inhabit THIS isolated realm alone...THEY gave us all this spiritual wisdom under many many disguises.....EVERY spiritual encounter mankind has EVER has - has been with these same limited,lesser Beings - not gods - not fully Divine - Angels - Creatures like You and I...No wonder mankind is so ignorant - we have never had an authentic legitimate teacher - except the one we call Christ - for He alone claims to be DIRECT from that Primal Sovereign Spirit, CAUSE of ALL Creation - and when we take on board the things He legitimately taught (not the bible propaganda,but universal metaphysical truths) it all makes a perfect sense and leaves no questions unanswered - and so to my mind, He alone is the Source to trust...There is an UNSTOPPABLE Creation process He said as my Father strives continuously to gain full and disclosed Self understanding - Gnosis - this drive causes ALL Creation to come forth- and so,is itself - most obviously - the very essence of that which we misunderstand as "karma" with its caue and affect outcomes.....
Nowhere Man;
I would agree - how could it actually be that at all ?..As said - if Karma is TRULY universal - then it has always existed for as long as the universe itself has existed - and that was long long LONG before ANY lifeforms arose to "score" any such "pioints" for a fictitious "god" to then keep tally of and give whats due accordingly..
Jainarayan;
Yes I agree with that also....The so called "new age wisdom" - is as said - poorly understood - re hash of ORIGINAL and legitimate spiritual knoweldge that mankind once had full access to but now near completely lost to us - thanks largely to ORGANISED RELIGION of course,and one western religion that bares my mates Name is the main culprit here for the western worlds complete lack of spiritual understanding...
The Eastern traditions - do at last have a distinct advantage when it comes to Divine truth - but also as said prior - these traditions still - are rooted firmly in the MORTAL and MUNDANE worlds - and by that I mean THIS realm of existance here, physical body plus several etheric realities we have termed "astral" - together these various layers of reality comprise that which I and Christ, call a "realm" - and at first this realm WE inhabit was ENTIRELY SEPERATE - purposefully hidden in fact - from the rest of the entire Creation...Therefore - before Christ - nobody had EVER had access to this Greater realm OR to the LEGITIMATE and FULLY Divine entities that abide there...In short - no mortal here, nor the god and angels "above" knew the truth that Christ came to give freely...He said that EMPHATICALLY and REPEATEDLY - the god of the bible is NOT the SOURCE of Creation itself - mankind has NEVER encountered that legitimate Source (except through Christ) - and He said just as emphatically that it was actually IMPOSSIBLE for a MORTAL and LIVING man to gain access to these Higher realms of existance...the mortal body must perish,die, release the Divine essence fully and comlpetly - the lower levels of the RESULTS of Karma - must be overcome first to allow this FULL TRANSCENDANCE to occur...Thus He said - Iam the way and ONLY way - none come to the Father (source of all) except they first BECOME CHRIST...
Do we realise here - these various forms and kinds of "karma" listed above..?...Do we see - they are the RESULTS of the process - they define the observable outcome once Karma has been utilised (either in ignorance or fully Self Conscious,Sentient) - but, they do not offer ANY EXPLANATION at all - for the process itself - how or why it should "be this way" - they merely point out the OBSERVABLE AFFECTS - and the CAUSE remains unknown,misunderstood...Of course this is so - we should EXPECT it to be so - for as said - all these gurus teachers and masters who give us these truths - are all themselves MORTAL and have no direct experiences of the things they give us as truth...They are not - reliable - wholly trustworthy - not even the religions themselves which are again MANS interpretations only - words on paper have many MANY meanings - the legitimate Divine truth is ALWAYS delivered though, Spirit to Spirit - this is of course - Gnosis..
Whilingmerc;
Yer so the RELIGION would have us believe - but as said - BY CHRIST - we simply cannot even trust that religion at all - you must come to HATE your parents He said - DAMN those pharisees teachers who neither have truth nor share it freely He warned...it may shock some - but Christ was NEVER a Jew - HE NEVER followed or advocated the Hebrew god Yahweh nor did He advocate ANY religious intistution - not even the one that bares His name...Instead as said - He advised to SHUN THEM ALL for they will all lead you in error He said - ONLY HE knows this crucial Source of Creation - its truly Universal "cause and affect" - its how why and wherefore fully and intimately disclosed by Him directly - now we have many many MANY contraditory source for this knowldge - some goes way way back long before Christ came among us - but understand fully here - those we took to be "gods" turn out to be actually not gods at all - they are ANGELS every last one of them - CREATURES like you and I - the RESULT of the Karmik Creation process - but not the SOURCE of it !!! IF this realm was once isolated as Christ said, then this would make perfect sense - fo rit means mankind has ALWAYS - right up to His arrival among us - mankind had ONLY EVER has contact withe SAME group of Angels that inhabit THIS isolated realm alone...THEY gave us all this spiritual wisdom under many many disguises.....EVERY spiritual encounter mankind has EVER has - has been with these same limited,lesser Beings - not gods - not fully Divine - Angels - Creatures like You and I...No wonder mankind is so ignorant - we have never had an authentic legitimate teacher - except the one we call Christ - for He alone claims to be DIRECT from that Primal Sovereign Spirit, CAUSE of ALL Creation - and when we take on board the things He legitimately taught (not the bible propaganda,but universal metaphysical truths) it all makes a perfect sense and leaves no questions unanswered - and so to my mind, He alone is the Source to trust...There is an UNSTOPPABLE Creation process He said as my Father strives continuously to gain full and disclosed Self understanding - Gnosis - this drive causes ALL Creation to come forth- and so,is itself - most obviously - the very essence of that which we misunderstand as "karma" with its caue and affect outcomes.....
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Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Namaste,
Not the full definition, this link provides a complete list of definitions and meaning acceding to usage and context.
http://sanskritdictionary.com/?q=karman&display=devanagari
VioletVortex
Well-Known Member
There is no actual balance to the universe. If this were the case, all murdered would be dead. However, they are in prison, demonstrating cause and affect. The cause and affect relations can manifest negatively, giving the illusion of karma, but really, it's all physical.
I do believe that there are a few instances where spirits are called upon to bring negative consequences upon an enemy, but this is human choice, not karma.
I do believe that there are a few instances where spirits are called upon to bring negative consequences upon an enemy, but this is human choice, not karma.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
Karma is not real. It has been known for thousands of years, that being a good righteous person is no guarantee that you will be healthy, prosperous, successful or live a long life. Whereas it has also been known for thousands of years, that many wicked persons do become healthy, prosperous, successful and live a long life. Just consider, if Karma did exist, only good people would win the lottery. In the book of Job, his three friends were so convinced that Job committed some sin, or else he would not have lost everything. See they believed in Karma. The book of Job was put in the Bible so that we won't be discouraged from being righteous, just because we don't get rich because of it. Karma is like Santa Clause, a fairy tale to discourage children and simpletons from hurting other people.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
A murderer who becomes prosperous had at one time made good kamma (actions) in his life or his past. Other peoples good kamma may have affected his prosperous outcome. Ma y factors involved and types of kamma involved.
A "good" person who is humble may have one day rapped someone. His kamma defined what reactions will return to him if not i this life but ghe next.
"Being" good or bad have nothing to do with the laws of nature: cause and affect. "Doing" good deeds (kamma) leads to good reactions. If it does not, the reactions is not caused by that good deed.
We build up karma and when something happens good or bad is a result of our and someone elses actions good "and" bad. Its a tumbe weed. Its nothing special unless you want to take responsibility for your actions (typing posts included) to prevent reactions that you cant predict may be bad.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Good prosperous person usually makes good actions (karma) to better his wealth. Whether or not he will get money and live long has nothing to do with his action and the result of it.
Thats one of many definitions of karma. Take that fancy word out and use
"Cause and effect"
So you mean there is no such than as causes and reactions?
Arguing about the reality or unreality of karma is similar to arguing about the existence of God. We have atheists, and theists, neither often moving from their position. So too with karma. Either you believe in it or you don't, and not much is going to change your view.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
Well, at the time of Antiochus Epiphanes and the Maccabees, so many righteous people were martyred, and they believed in something like Karma (or a similar type of justice) so much, that the Jews starting to believe in a resurrection. Right, there is something like Karma, but it isn't evident in this life, so there must be some kind of afterlife when you get your rewards and punishments. Nowhere in the Torah does Moses mention an afterlife. The Maccabean revolt ended in 164 B.C.E. thousands of years after Moses. So it took thousands of years for a concept of an afterlife to be accepted by the mainstream Jewish people. And it was that simple argument, Karma is real but we don't see any evidence of it in this life, so there must be an afterlife.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I am aware that the Jews didn't believe in Karma by that name, until some of them traveled to the Far East. Look, the concept of Karma existed in Judaism for a long time, I just don't know enough Hebrew to know what they called it.