Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I would be happy to debate this subject with you in a thread on that topic.
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Is living a gay/lesbian lifestyle a problem with God?
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I would be happy to debate this subject with you in a thread on that topic.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
So I take it you have no actual argument? Nothing that I said that you can show to be incorrect?
No one is taking issue with your right to say anything you like. If you wish to make non-argumentative fallacies, feel free.
Primordial Annihilator
Well-Known Member
You are quite quite wrong..although this isnt the thread I have to say something.
Things spring out of nothing all the time all around you every picosecond.
You are surrounded by virtual particles popping in and out of existence all the time...the best evidence for this is the Casimir effect...something you need to look into...it is as real as gravity.
Secondly the universe has a total net energy value of ZERO..in other word it cost zero energy for the universe to rapidly expand into reality from a point (infinite point) to what it is now (for us).
The explantion for this comes from the fact that the universe is full of two fundamental energies...negative gravitational energy and positive mass energy...they cancel each other out.
So yes something can come from 'nothing'.
The initial universe was a sea of elementary particles...but thanks to chaos (highly complex order) the universe and it's emergent order became realised thanks to the driving force of entropy.
Amino acids will form in light year spanning molecular clouds in space..
Ice crystals will form elegant snowflakes as they fall....
Stars will form from clouds of hydrogen and helium gas...of their own accord...whole stellar nurseries where stars are being born right now.
Life will evolve toward increasing complexity...
It is all Chaos....all of it.
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wilsoncole
Active Member
I don't think so.
This tells me that it is your contention that if there was nothing in all eternity before the Big Bang, something would still be here now. Am I correct?
Then....WHAT would be here?
What universe? Clouds, hydrogen, snowflakes, helium, stars, amino acids, particles, energy, life - That all started with the Big Bang! Or do you think they were always there?
You don't seem to be aware that you are talking about energy ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, long after the Big Bang.
Where and how did this energy originate?
You haven't even touched the problem.
You are quite mistaken, Sir. NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING!
waitasec
Veteran Member
oh well that explains everything doesn't it :sarcastic
not to mention the bible is a product of the bronze age....
do you eat shell fish?
leviticus 11:10 But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you.
wonder why that isn't an issue? could it be you're possibly prejudice?
hmmmm....and besides who are you to judge or to place judgments on anyone? is your god that desperate that it is in need of your assistance to assume control over other peoples inalienable rights?
i'm actually embarrassed for you
Primordial Annihilator
Well-Known Member
There is no net energy...it is all borrowed in time...the net energy of the universe is 0.
As I said the Casimir effect does show that 'something' does come from 'nothing'.
''Although the Casimir effect can be expressed in terms of virtual particles interacting with the objects, it is best described and more easily calculated in terms of the zero-point energy of a quantized field in the intervening space between the objects. This force has been measured, and is a striking example of an effect purely due to second quantization.[3][4] ''
Casimir effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Everything you think is solid (or liquid), everything real, is 99.9999% empty space...incidently...
Our universe may be one of a countless multitude....some sterile and dead with no stars and planets...some bizarre and exotic by our standards...some like ours....all possibilities....that is the overall rammification of what I am saying...throughout all infinity...no need for a creator God.
Maybe a universe in the middle of every atom
That's not necessarily to be taken literally...or is it?
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No, Paul is speaking about a time much earlier than the apostate Israelites. He is speaking about the time of this creation's first resurrection when Adam was called out from among mankind and given the "breath of life" and became the first "living" Man of the new creation then being organized. If his fellow "zombie" companions would have honored and received the dominion that was given to Him then all of the woeful things Paul went on to talk about would not have happened. They would have enjoyed Paradise without interruption.
Now, there is a definite connection between this "Paradise Lost" situation and apostate Israel. When individuals come forth in their resurrection they bring with them all of their former traits and tendencies. If you look at the nation of Israel as God's Bride, which is so, then She had adulteries and blasphemies on Her record. Thus, when She rises in Her resurrection, she isn't coming forth with a clean slate.
So, when you look at Adam and Eve from the perspective of them being put in a setup, the matter of who set them up becomes clear when you view Adam and Eve as the resurrected Jehovah and Israel. Israel's ancient apostasy lays the foundation for their 'fall' when they come forth in their resurrection at the beginning of the new creation.
There are some very specific mechanics to all of this. It just so happens that Ephraim was the ring leader of ancient Israel's apostasy and also the very first to come forth in the resurrection. This started for Ephraim on the 2520 year figure (See Book of Daniel and do your own Google search e.g. http://www.2520yearprophecy.com/) taking you to about the 1830's or 1840's. However, elsewhere (Ezekiel 4, Lev 26:24) we see a 2730 year (390x7) period of judgment decreed against them to be turned over to the buffetings of the adversary.
So, if you put it all together, Ephraim comes forth in the first resurrection during the time he is yet decreed to be under the buffetings of the adversary. The factor here is about 200 years for this all to play out. This means that due to his former apostasy he stacked the deck against himself in a big way. He assured that he would be taken for a spoil and brought to death again, even though it was also time for him to enter into his resurrection and exaltation.
So, what Paul is speaking of was what happened in the previous creation cycle that we are now in the process of having play out again because we are in the time of Ephraim's resurrection (gathering) and exaltation (being given dominion over all things) to bring in the new creation. We are experiencing Paradise (being) Lost right now and its foundation was laid by Ephraim's ancient apostasy.
Have a nice day!
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There are scriptures from the NT that explain that the Mosaic Law was done away with but certain requirements/laws were still in place.
If you knew anything about the Bible (apart from picking on single sentences and not on the context, which is very convenient) you would know this. But I am not going to waste my energy in typing as you are not prone to a discussion but the very contrary.
wonder why that isn't an issue? could it be you're possibly prejudice?
hmmmm....and besides who are you to judge or to place judgments on anyone? is your god that desperate that it is in need of your assistance to assume control over other peoples inalienable rights?
i'm actually embarrassed for you
Prejudice is normally shown to a person not to what the person does!
You should be embarrassed from your playing with words. I never said I am prejudiced against gays....
I have many friends who smoke but I am not prejudiced agaist them but I strongly believe I have a right to be against what they do (smoking)...am I not!??
First-century Christians faced the challenge of maintaining virtue because vice permeated every aspect of Roman society. The Roman philosopher Seneca said of people in his time:"Men struggle in a mighty rivalry of wickedness. Every day the desire for wrong-doing is greater, the dread of it less." He compared Roman society to "a community of wild beasts." It is no surprise, then, that for entertainment the Romans sought out sadistic gladiatorial contests and lewd theatrical performances.
Plus, Adam was created, yes, but never resurected and never will. The new creation referres to the anointed christians that will be part of the 144000 (or Bride of Christ) with a heavenly hope. If you are talking about the "last Adam" then that is Jesus....
Again, regardless of who you believe the scripture was addressed to....it still contains God's thinking and consideration on wrong-doing and it is quite specific.
Plus, Adam was created, yes, but never resurected and never will. The new creation referres to the anointed christians that will be part of the 144000 (or Bride of Christ) with a heavenly hope. If you are talking about the "last Adam" then that is Jesus....
Again, regardless of who you believe the scripture was addressed to....it still contains God's thinking and consideration on wrong-doing and it is quite specific.
waitasec
Veteran Member
gee how convenient is that?
again this is a product of the bronze age mentality, not very moral if you ask me. remember slavery, genocide, human trafficking and rape of an un-pledged girl was condoned...not very moral by todays standards, what do you think?
Prejudice is normally shown to a person not to what the person does!
You should be embarrassed from your playing with words. I never said I am prejudiced against gays....
I have many friends who smoke but I am not prejudiced agaist them but I strongly believe I have a right to be against what they do (smoking)...am I not!??
so tell me, did you vote against same sex marriages...thats something you do
waitasec
Veteran Member
Again your ignorance on the Bible comes to the surface. Does the Bible condone slavery, genocide, human trafficking and rape? No it doesn't.
So you are saying that a book that provides sound counsel, that can enable us to have a happy family life isn't practical for our day? Theories and practices involving family life and happiness have changed many times, and the results we see today aren't good at all. But those who know and apply what the Bible says have stable, happy family lives.
Who told you we vote at all? Think with your own brain and don't just repeat what others muffle just like a parrot...JWs don't vote!....
truly embarrassing
true, and you should be
Primordial Annihilator
Well-Known Member
144000 eh?
So many surplus christians...hehehe
How dissapointed they are going to be...leading blamless lives...harvesting souls for the Lord...and all for what eh?
Better to go to Hell with all your friends and family
I know that is what my choice would be...
Again your ignorance on the Bible comes to the surface. Does the Bible condone slavery, genocide, human trafficking and rape? No it doesn't.
So you are saying that a book that provides sound counsel, that can enable us to have a happy family life isn't practical for our day? Theories and practices involving family life and happiness have changed many times, and the results we see today aren't good at all. But those who know and apply what the Bible says have stable, happy family lives.
Who told you we vote at all? Think with your own brain and don't just repeat what others muffle just like a parrot...JWs don't vote!....
And the passages exhorting slaves to obey their masters happily, setting the parameters for who can be taken as a slave, how hard one can beat a slave, whether or not to free a slave, the slave's family, and what to do if the male slave does not wish to leave his family (which is not being freed) upon offering him his freedom are what, clear condemnations of the institute of slavery? Yahweh was REALLY clear about things that were not appropriate in his eyes...Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor; Thou shalt not have any gods before me; Thou shalt not eat a kid (baby goat) cooked in its mothers milk...etc. No where in the bible (that I recall, I admit my last reading of the bible was many years ago) does Yahweh, his Son, nor Paul explicitly condemn slavery. At best one can find passages in the NT exhorting masters to be kind to their slaves, and for slaves to be happy in their slavery and to serve well. No passages to the effect of "slavery is bad, christians mustn't own slaves". Biblical passages were used to justify slavery, justify preventing women from voting, owning property or otherwise participating in society as an individual person, later biblical passages were used to justify segregation and racial inequality. Today, biblical passages (many of the same passages used to argue against inter-racial marriage) are being used to argue against LGBT equality under secular law. Eventually, the side of good will win, and our grandchildren will wonder how and why LGBTs and other minorities were treated so poorly, and how religious people could justify their stance against equal treatment of all people under secular law. Much like today, revisionists try and down play the use of biblical passages and the role of religious leaders and institutions in the past civil rights struggles on the side of evil. I know that there were churches, religious leaders and organizations that worked for abolition, women's rights, and civil rights as well; I know that there are some religious organizations working towards LGBT equality but truthfully, their voices are drowned out by certified hate groups like AFA, AFTAH, FRC, IFI, Mass Resistance and others, the organizations working for good need to be more vocal, and to get better air time.
wilsoncole
Active Member
Wilson:
You insist that something comes from nothing.
1. ".....it is your contention that if there was nothing in all eternity before the Big Bang, something would still be here now. Am I correct?
Then....WHAT would be here?
2. What universe? Clouds, hydrogen, snowflakes, helium, stars, amino acids, particles, energy, life - That all started with the Big Bang!
3. Or do you think they were always there?
4. You don't seem to be aware that you are talking about energy ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, long after the Big Bang.
5. Where and how did this energy originate?
You haven't even touched the problem.
You are quite mistaken, Sir. NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING!
1. ".....it is your contention that if there was nothing in all eternity before the Big Bang, something would still be here now. Am I correct?
Then....WHAT would be here?
(\__/)
( . )
>(^)<
Wilson
You insist that something comes from nothing.
1. ".....it is your contention that if there was nothing in all eternity before the Big Bang, something would still be here now. Am I correct?
Then....WHAT would be here?
2. What universe? Clouds, hydrogen, snowflakes, helium, stars, amino acids, particles, energy, life - That all started with the Big Bang!
3. Or do you think they were always there?
4. You don't seem to be aware that you are talking about energy ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, long after the Big Bang.
5. Where and how did this energy originate?
You haven't even touched the problem.
You are quite mistaken, Sir. NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING!
OK - let's take this slowly, one at a time.
1. ".....it is your contention that if there was nothing in all eternity before the Big Bang, something would still be here now. Am I correct?
Then....WHAT would be here?
(\__/)
( . )
>(^)<
Wilson
Primordial Annihilator
Well-Known Member
Yes let us take this slowly...
That is not my contention..my contention is that universes spring into existence all the time and have done so for eternity and will do so for eternity.
Our universe is one of an infinite number of universes...some dead some alive some very different.
What you seem to think is that space is absolute...and that it existed prior to the universe...that is not the case.
wilsoncole
Active Member
Originally Posted by wilsoncole
Attack upon whom? Signs of paranoia here?
I said I do not believe that it is possible for unbelievers to know right from wrong.
If that is what you're referring to, I made it clear that it is my opinion and I am entitled to that and the right to say it.
So I take it you have no actual argument? Nothing that I said that you can show to be incorrect?
Attack upon whom? Signs of paranoia here?
I said I do not believe that it is possible for unbelievers to know right from wrong.
If that is what you're referring to, I made it clear that it is my opinion and I am entitled to that and the right to say it.
You got things backwards, Autodidact. I made the claim above. What's YOUR argument? Should I take it that you agree with me?
So I take it you have no actual argument? Nothing that I said that you can show to be incorrect?
wilsoncole
Active Member
You haven't answered my question.
Want to try again?
wilsoncole
Active Member
"btw, I'm pretty sure the universe always existed."
Those are YOUR words - on this thread.
Why the dodge?