is Muhammad a good model for Muslims to imitate?

[arthra]

Ibrahim wrote above:

"I'm not sure which Qur'an or which Muhammad you guys are talking about. But if You are talking about Islam's Quran and prophet then he is not only the greatest among the prophets but everything you know including the prophets were created for his sake and his sake alone. He is the greatest man that ever lived "

The Qur'an I read says:

136. Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord, we make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 2)

"....we make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

 

[NB Ibrahim]

Ibrahim wrote above:

"I'm not sure which Qur'an or which Muhammad you guys are talking about. But if You are talking about Islam's Quran and prophet then he is not only the greatest among the prophets but everything you know including the prophets were created for his sake and his sake alone. He is the greatest man that ever lived "

The Qur'an I read says:

136. Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord, we make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 2)

"....we make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

Reply to arthra

the Quran says :tilkal Rusulu faddalna ba'adahum ala ba'adin.............

meaning :

Those messengers - some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree. And We gave Jesus, the Son of Mary, clear proofs, and We supported him with the Pure Spirit. If Allah had willed, those [generations] succeeding them would not have fought each other after the clear proofs had come to them. But they differed, and some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. And if Allah had willed, they would not have fought each other, but Allah does what He intends.

Quran Chapter 2 Verse 253

Ponder on that while doing that bear in mind that there are no contradictions in the holy Quran.
So only other explanation is the verse you provided was refering to the message of these prophets (PBUT) and that is because they are all preaching the same thing Worship Allah and Allah alone and bear witness He sent me to warn you and give you glad tidings.

On the day of judgement all the prophets of Allah will be afraid to go and ask for a passage to heaven every creature ever created by God will be there, and people will go to Adam and ask him to intercede on their behalf but he couldn't because as far as he is concerned he sinned, so did Moses so did Jesus and everone else all except for one.

Muhammad Rasul-lallahi (SAW) he will be given the authority by Allah (SWT) to gather all that worshipped Allah (SWT) and loved him (Muhammad) to enter heaven and the rest are most certainly going the other way.

And lets not forget that on the day the prophet (SAW) died when the angel of deatrh came with Gabriel the prophet asked Gabriel to tell him something good, and he (gabriel) mentioned something about the gates of heaven opened to welcome the prophet (SAW) but the prophet(SAW) said " No I'm asking about my people" (see how much he loves me and you) and the angel told him that Allah chose your people to be the first to enter heaven before the people of any other prophet before you.

What I'm saying is all the other prophets are better than all of us but as an Ummah or people we are better than theirs not because we are cleaner, or anything but because Allah chose Muhammad (SAW) and he chose us.

Ibrahim Khalil-lullah
Musa Khalamullah
Isa Ruhullah
Muhammad Habiballlah

If you don't call that a difference what is?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..but as an Ummah or people we are better than theirs not because we are cleaner, or anything but because Allah chose Muhammad (SAW) and he chose us.

..iblees thought that he was better .. and look what happened to him!

 

[arthra]

Then Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not praise me excessively as Jesus, son
of Mary was praised, but call me Allah's Slave and His Apostles.'

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 8)

 

[NB Ibrahim]

..iblees thought that he was better .. and look what happened to him!

Difference been Ibless was wrong because he chose to be superior to a creation he thinks he is better than and I'm not giving you my opinion all I'm doing is Quoting Ayats and Hadith that says so.

To me it is a point of pride that I'm among the people of Muhammad I'm glad, as a Muslim if you are not you really should check your faith. Whenever something good or bad happens to me before I thank Allah (SWT) for it, I always thank him for being among the people of his beloved Prophet (SAW).

Well Muhammad_Isa do me a favor start asking yourself what is it that makes Muhammad (SAW) special, I can tell you a few but why ruin it for you ?

Have fun.

 

[NB Ibrahim]

Then Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not praise me excessively as Jesus, son
of Mary was praised, but call me Allah's Slave and His Apostles.'

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 8)

Thank you Arthra a Muslim will cross a line the minute he gives Muhammad divinity like christians did Jesus and that is why the prophet chose Jesus in this particular narration to point out exactly what shouldn't be done. Muhammad (SAW) is a man but unlike you and I he is sinless, he is the best of men but he is not God and he is not the son of God. Everything he did he did by the will of Allah (SWT), Muhammad (SAW) alone is powerless but Allah (SWT) chose him and that is what made him different from everyone.

As a bonus Allah SWT called him (Muhammad) "Rahmatan lil alameen" always remember that.

 

[muhammad_isa]

To me it is a point of pride that I'm among the people of Muhammad (peace be with him)

I'm fast becoming an old man .. I am very grateful to Almighty God that He has given me what faith I do have .. but I wouldn't say that I was proud.

I see what pride in religion causes .. argument, dissent and violence

 

[Pegg]

I think the life of Prophet Muhammad is a good example to follow.. He was regarded as an honest and fair man in His time.. People forget that He was basically rejected in the early years of His mission by His family... only His cousin Ali and wife Khadijih stood by Him... His early followers had to flee to Ethiopia for refuge.. After His tribe was boycotted and an serious attempt was made to assassinate Him .. He fled to Medina. He organised the people of Medina to defend their city and form an alliance...

Would you say he was a political warrior?

 

[arthra]

Pegg wrote:

"Would you say He was a "political warrior"...?

"He" meaning Prophet Muhammad... One of the issues I think you raise is the distinction between terms like religious and political... Would Moses be a "political" warrior?

If you consider the life of Prophet Muhammad... The revelation first came upon Him in retreat while on Mount Hira...Only a few believers were then acknowledging the revelation.. His wife Khadijih and young cousin Ali. The revelations continued and He gathered His family togetehr to see if any would accept the revelation. No one responded... Only Ali reaffirmed his allegiance...

As the teaching became more broadly known the pagans of Mecca reacted... some with abuse and persecution. The first years of His mission the Prophet resorted to no retaliation or force... His tribe the Hashimite began to be boycotted.. More force was applied to eradicate the new Faith. Eventually a serious attempt was made to assassinate Him in His bed... His cousin Ali took His place and the believers left Mecca for Medina.. Earlier some believers took refuge in Aethiopia under the Christian ruler...and so on. The Meccans raised an army to attack Medina ... Finally a revelation was received to defend Medina...

So was the Prophet just interested in political power..? No. He could have easily forged a powerful alliance with pagans in Mecca had there been no revelation to begin with.

 

[NB Ibrahim]

Sorry,
I keep forgeting that I live in a time of two kind of Muslims, something I really don't get is who is a moderate Muslim? What does that even mean?

 

[Pegg]

Pegg wrote:

"Would you say He was a "political warrior"...?

"He" meaning Prophet Muhammad... One of the issues I think you raise is the distinction between terms like religious and political... Would Moses be a "political" warrior?

If you consider the life of Prophet Muhammad... The revelation first came upon Him in retreat while on Mount Hira...Only a few believers were then acknowledging the revelation.. His wife Khadijih and young cousin Ali. The revelations continued and He gathered His family togetehr to see if any would accept the revelation. No one responded... Only Ali reaffirmed his allegiance...

As the teaching became more broadly known the pagans of Mecca reacted... some with abuse and persecution. The first years of His mission the Prophet resorted to no retaliation or force... His tribe the Hashimite began to be boycotted.. More force was applied to eradicate the new Faith. Eventually a serious attempt was made to assassinate Him in His bed... His cousin Ali took His place and the believers left Mecca for Medina.. Earlier some believers took refuge in Aethiopia under the Christian ruler...and so on. The Meccans raised an army to attack Medina ... Finally a revelation was received to defend Medina...

So was the Prophet just interested in political power..? No. He could have easily forged a powerful alliance with pagans in Mecca had there been no revelation to begin with.

but what he did do was go to war with the non-believers. And some of his followers continue to do the same today. So if we are asking the question of whether he is a good role model, i guess it depends on our view of war. Someone who is opposed to war and violence would say no, he was not a good example. Others might disagree. It all comes down to viewpoint.

 

[arthra]

Pegg,

Here's what i think...

By the end of His mission Prophet Muhammad had a community to defend...

His actions were defensive and when treaties were set up He obeyed them.. even with the Meccan pagans...

Jesus didn't have a community as such but He was in a different situation. Jesus advised to pay your taxes and turn the cheek and carry burdens the extra mile. Had the people followed Jesus teachings in this instance they would have averted what was to follow...

People were looking for a "Messiah" to lead them in rebellion against the Rome and followed Simon bar Kokhba instead... They lost and the Legions burned and sacked Jerusalem... The Jews were forbidden to return to Jerusalem for many years ... .

One book I'd suggest you read is entitled "Muhammad and the Course of Islam" by H.M. Balyuzi.

Download:

Download Muhammad and the Course of Islam - H.M. Balyuzi » Download free new releases and popular religion books

another is

The Preaching of Islam

The preaching of Islam : a history of the propagation of the Muslim faith : Arnold, Thomas Walker, Sir, 1864-1930 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Actually the holy Koran was written down very soon after or during the Prophet's life, not so with most of the Old Testament and almost all of the New Testament, which were written down some hundreds of years later.

Um, the New Testament was written no later than the 1st century.

 

[Lyndon]

I think you mean 100-200AD which is the second century.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think you mean 100-200AD which is the second century.

No, I mean the 1st century. Paul's epistles were written in about the 50s AD and John is the youngest Gospel, being written about 90 AD. No idea where you're getting those dates, which isn't what scholars say.

 

[Lyndon]

That is not what MOST scholars say.....

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is not what MOST scholars say.....

You're wrong. Most scholars agree that the NT was written in the 1st century. Some scholars may give late dates that push into the 2nd century, but they're the minority. Produce evidence saying otherwise.

 

[JacobEzra.]

but what he did do was go to war with the non-believers. And some of his followers continue to do the same today. So if we are asking the question of whether he is a good role model, i guess it depends on our view of war. Someone who is opposed to war and violence would say no, he was not a good example. Others might disagree. It all comes down to viewpoint.

Hes just as bad as Jacobs kids and Moses and Joshua and many many biblical figures.

 

[Pegg]

Actually the holy Koran was written down very soon after or during the Prophet's life, not so with most of the Old Testament and almost all of the New Testament, which were written down some hundreds of years later.

all was written before the end of the first century

Perhaps you are referring to the copies that were made, and continued to be made, hundreds of years later.

 

[Lyndon]

There is no absolute proof the Gospels were written down as opposed to orally transmitted in the first century, certainly no historical Gospel documents form the first century, its really all conjecture, although I'll admit its likely some of it was written down, even during Jesus's life, maybe.