Is nature morally wrong?

[philbo]

That's the whole point, I wanted to see if people thought prostitution was "morally wrong". But then you throw in the animal part into, and lots of people don't like to see animals on the same level as humans, so I figured this would be an interesting discussion point.

I see.. I was kind of thinking that you were making the assumption that people would think prostitution was morally wrong, and inviting them (us?) to consider whether our human set of morals could be applied to animals.

It doesn't materially affect my view of morals: humanity has never had absolute morals, which though history have all been to some extent pragmatic and defined by the society of the time.

Animals can display all sorts of behaviour which might appear complex, and we might consider moral or otherwise - if it improves the chances of survival/reproduction, not necessarily for the animal exhibiting the behaviour, but its genes & those of its family members, then that behaviour is likely to become more prevalent, especially if it can be learned by observation by others of the same species. It would be fairly odd if we, as humans, decided these behaviours were moral or immoral.

 

[Dinner123]

Prostitution among animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do ya'll think?

The trend with God is whoever He gives more to; He requires more from them. This is also seen with the angelic beings. They aren't given the same opportunity of the forgiveness and grace that humans receive through Jesus Christ. More strict responsibility for their actions was required of them because of their higher nature.

God gave humans rules because we are supposed to be held to a higher standard than animals. We aren't just animals. As the Bible clearly points out we are made in the image of God (Gen 1:27) and it even calls humans "gods" and "children of the Most High". (Psalm 82:6) So you can see how the nature of a human is higher than an animal's nature.

angels - created as higher beings - more responsibility expected from them.
humans - made a "little" lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5) - responsibility expected from them.
animals - not made in God's image - face consequences for their actions only in this present life but do not face any eternal judgement.

One example of consequences that an animal can face in this life time according to the Bible is that according to the Bible any animal that kills a human should be killed. (Gen 9:5-6) Humans were given the authority to rule and reign over all animals on earth. (Gen 1:26)

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The trend with God is whoever He gives more to; He requires more from them. This is also seen with the angelic beings. They aren't given the same opportunity of the forgiveness and grace that humans receive through Jesus Christ. More strict responsibility for their actions was required of them because of their higher nature.

God gave humans rules because we are supposed to be held to a higher standard than animals. We aren't just animals. As the Bible clearly points out we are made in the image of God (Gen 1:27) and it even calls humans "gods" and "children of the Most High". (Psalm 82:6) So you can see how the nature of a human is higher than an animal's nature.

angels - created as higher beings - more responsibility expected from them.
humans - made a "little" lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5) - responsibility expected from them.
animals - not made in God's image - face consequences for their actions only in this present life but do not face any eternal judgement.

One example of consequences that an animal can face in this life time according to the Bible is that according to the Bible any animal that kills a human should be killed. (Gen 9:5-6) Humans were given the authority to rule and reign over all animals on earth. (Gen 1:26)

Where does it say in Genesis that Humans were made less than Angels? Rather we were made in their (Gods) Image? As it says "Come let us make Man in our image"

This is either physical

Spiritual

Or any facet in between

Given that after saying that, man (or Adam at least) was formed from Clay into the image of man, I would say it is physical...but most wouldn't agree with that.

 

[nash8]

I see.. I was kind of thinking that you were making the assumption that people would think prostitution was morally wrong, and inviting them (us?) to consider whether our human set of morals could be applied to animals.

Animals can display all sorts of behaviour which might appear complex, and we might consider moral or otherwise - if it improves the chances of survival/reproduction, not necessarily for the animal exhibiting the behaviour, but its genes & those of its family members, then that behaviour is likely to become more prevalent, especially if it can be learned by observation by others of the same species. It would be fairly odd if we, as humans, decided these behaviours were moral or immoral.

I was kind of doing that in some way too. People don't normally view animals in the same light as humans. When you see an animal kill another animal, most people tend to be like, "oh that's an animal that's what there supposed to do". But when you hear an animal pimping itself out for whatever reason, especially a penguin since there supposed to mate for life, you don't immediately think "oh that's what an animal is supposed to do. So I also was wondering how people would view a "immoral" behavior in general human standards, that they hadn't become accustomed to by national geographic.

The trend with God is whoever He gives more to; He requires more from them. This is also seen with the angelic beings. They aren't given the same opportunity of the forgiveness and grace that humans receive through Jesus Christ. More strict responsibility for their actions was required of them because of their higher nature.

God gave humans rules because we are supposed to be held to a higher standard than animals. We aren't just animals. As the Bible clearly points out we are made in the image of God (Gen 1:27) and it even calls humans "gods" and "children of the Most High". (Psalm 82:6) So you can see how the nature of a human is higher than an animal's nature.

angels - created as higher beings - more responsibility expected from them.
humans - made a "little" lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5) - responsibility expected from them.
animals - not made in God's image - face consequences for their actions only in this present life but do not face any eternal judgement.

One example of consequences that an animal can face in this life time according to the Bible is that according to the Bible any animal that kills a human should be killed. (Gen 9:5-6) Humans were given the authority to rule and reign over all animals on earth. (Gen 1:26)

I also brought this point up because it, kind of implies a humanistic quality in animals, as well address the similarties we have to animals as well. We tend to think were extremely different, but in reality we more close than I think we realize.

I think angels can exist as humans just as easily as they can as higher beings.

 

[philbo]

I was kind of doing that in some way too. People don't normally view animals in the same light as humans. When you see an animal kill another animal, most people tend to be like, "oh that's an animal that's what there supposed to do". But when you hear an animal pimping itself out for whatever reason, especially a penguin since there supposed to mate for life, you don't immediately think "oh that's what an animal is supposed to do. So I also was wondering how people would view a "immoral" behavior in general human standards, that they hadn't become accustomed to by national geographic.

I can see what you're getting at: we are used to animals killing other animals, and tend to have a "well, it's for their survival" sort of attitude (at least, the ones who haven't owned a cat might think that), yet a complex behaviour where the payback isn't so obvious and in human society is judged on moral grounds could cause confusion

 

[Dinner123]

Where does it say in Genesis that Humans were made less than Angels? Rather we were made in their (Gods) Image? As it says "Come let us make Man in our image"

This is either physical

Spiritual

Or any facet in between

Given that after saying that, man (or Adam at least) was formed from Clay into the image of man, I would say it is physical...but most wouldn't agree with that.

It says the son of man is made a little lower than the angels in Psalm 8:4-5.

I believe we have God's silhouette physically. You can read about how Ezekiel saw something like a manifestation of God. (Ezekiel 1:26-28) I also think being made in His image has to do with our eternal human spirits and maybe other things. I believe angels are also made in His image not just humans only. Their bodies are heavenly bodies. Ours are earthly bodies. Heaven is higher than the earth. So their nature was made "a little" higher than our own. However, Jesus makes clear that whoever is resurrected will have bodies equal to the angels. (Luke 20:36) These are eternal heavenly bodies that are very interesting. Read Daniels description of an angel he encountered. (Daniel 10:5-6)

I also brought this point up because it, kind of implies a humanistic quality in animals, as well address the similarties we have to animals as well. We tend to think were extremely different, but in reality we more close than I think we realize.

I think angels can exist as humans just as easily as they can as higher beings.

Well, our physical bodies are like the animals. That is what the preacher in Ecclesiastes was saying. (see Ecclesiastes 3:18-21) That's a totally valid Biblical viewpoint. Still, we have qualities that animals do not. Like the preacher said the animals spirit goes down to the earth when it dies and the man's spirit goes up.

Angels can manifest in physical form that seem like human beings. That's true according to the Bible. But, they aren't really humans.

 

[nash8]

Well, our physical bodies are like the animals. That is what the preacher in Ecclesiastes was saying. (see Ecclesiastes 3:18-21) That's a totally valid Biblical viewpoint. Still, we have qualities that animals do not. Like the preacher said the animals spirit goes down to the earth when it dies and the man's spirit goes up.

Angels can manifest in physical form that seem like human beings. That's true according to the Bible. But, they aren't really humans.

Mmmh, I don't neccesarily believe it is neccesarily certain that animal spirits go down to the earth when they die and man's spirit goes automatically up. I believe it's a little bit more complex than that.

Mmmh, I think they all human's are nothing but angels in a sense.

 

[Dinner123]

Mmmh, I don't neccesarily believe it is neccesarily certain that animal spirits go down to the earth when they die and man's spirit goes automatically up. I believe it's a little bit more complex than that.

Mmmh, I think they all human's are nothing but angels in a sense.

I suppose maybe not all human spirits go up. That may be the ones who are saved that go up.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

It says the son of man is made a little lower than the angels in Psalm 8:4-5.

I believe we have God's silhouette physically. You can read about how Ezekiel saw something like a manifestation of God. (Ezekiel 1:26-28) I also think being made in His image has to do with our eternal human spirits and maybe other things. I believe angels are also made in His image not just humans only. Their bodies are heavenly bodies. Ours are earthly bodies. Heaven is higher than the earth. So their nature was made "a little" higher than our own. However, Jesus makes clear that whoever is resurrected will have bodies equal to the angels. (Luke 20:36) These are eternal heavenly bodies that are very interesting. Read Daniels description of an angel he encountered. (Daniel 10:5-6)

Well, our physical bodies are like the animals. That is what the preacher in Ecclesiastes was saying. (see Ecclesiastes 3:18-21) That's a totally valid Biblical viewpoint. Still, we have qualities that animals do not. Like the preacher said the animals spirit goes down to the earth when it dies and the man's spirit goes up.

Angels can manifest in physical form that seem like human beings. That's true according to the Bible. But, they aren't really humans.

Yes but where does it say that man was made less than angels in genesis?

 

[Dinner123]

Yes but where does it say that man was made less than angels in genesis?

Oh you mean Adam himself? It doesn't say that. Psalm 8 technically says the Son of Adam.

What are you getting at?

 

[Orias]

"Morally Wrong"? I don't think so. Nature is self preserving, like some have said on this thread. Nature also destroys itself, essentially.

 

[Whiterain]

Nature has no concern for morality. Only efficiency.

Reason can be observed in nature through beasts alone, vegetation does not stop. Two
Rams do strike, yet do not stop until dead. No beast often competes until dead, showing
reason.

This 'prostitution' of nature through beasts is over genetics, while in Man it is different, even
many beasts are more monogamous than many humans.

 

[illykitty]

I don't view nature as being moral or immoral. It just doesn't apply.

 

[Koldo]

Prostitution among animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do ya'll think?

Not applicable. Nature is not an individual.

 

[nash8]

"Morally Wrong"? I don't think so. Nature is self preserving, like some have said on this thread. Nature also destroys itself, essentially.

How can nature be self preserving and essentially destroy itself at the same time.

Reason can be observed in nature through beasts alone, vegetation does not stop. Two
Rams do strike, yet do not stop until dead. No beast often competes until dead, showing reason.

I guess one could also take in the sense that rams are some pretty unreasonable beasts lol.

This 'prostitution' of nature through beasts is over genetics, while in Man it is different, even
many beasts are more monogamous than many humans.

I would argue that polygamy within humans is genetic.

The other interesting thing with the penguin being the animal studied is that penguins are supposed to mate for life. So it is essentially, one of those beasts that are more monogamous than many humans.

I don't view nature as being moral or immoral. It just doesn't apply.

So morality can only be applied to human endeavors?

Not applicable. Nature is not an individual.

So morallity can only be applied to individuals?

 

[s2a]

Immoral atheistic "natural predator"...

Download Cute Kitten Pic - Love Pictures Gallery | Love Pictures

praying for absolution and redemption...



sheesh

 

[Orias]

How can nature be self preserving and essentially destroy itself at the same time.

For the same reason we have mercy killings.

 

[philbo]

How can nature be self preserving and essentially destroy itself at the same time.

Sounds like "natural selection" to me

..obviously it doesn't destroy all of itself at the same time.

 

[crossfire]

That's the whole point, I wanted to see if people thought prostitution was "morally wrong". But then you throw in the animal part into, and lots of people don't like to see animals on the same level as humans, so I figured this would be an interesting discussion point.

Do animals engage in "animal trafficking" to spread prostitution in a similar manner as humans engage in "human trafficking" to spread prostitution?

 

[nash8]

Immoral atheistic "natural predator"...

Download Cute Kitten Pic - Love Pictures Gallery | Love Pictures

praying for absolution and redemption...



sheesh

All i see is an immoral "natural predator" waiting to kill a defensless chipmunk.

For the same reason we have mercy killings.

Lol, what exactly is a mercy killing? And I thought those were outlawed in the U.S.

Sounds like "natural selection" to me

..obviously it doesn't destroy all of itself at the same time.

So your saying nature destroys a part of itself, to promote survival for a better part of itself?

Do animals engage in "animal trafficking" to spread prostitution in a similar manner as humans engage in "human trafficking" to spread prostitution?

I haven't seen evidence for that one yet, but does why would "trafficking" be immoral as opposed to prostitution itself?