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Is once saved, always saved, a Biblical fact, introductory evidence?
- Thread starter YeshuaRedeemed
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- osas
"Once saved always saved"? I cannot agree. The Bible does not agree.
The Apostle Paul did not subscribe to the view held by many denominations today, namely, ‘Once you are saved, you cannot lose your salvation.’
After accepting Jesus as our savior and redeemer, and dedicating our lives to doing God's will, we have only started on the way to salvation, not finished it. So Paul counsels us to ‘keep working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.’ (Philippians 2:12) Why “keep working” and why with “fear and trembling,” if ‘once saved, always saved’?'
The Bible says that it is possible to fall away, and impossible for certain of such ones to revive to repentance again, 'because they put the Son of God to death afresh, shaming him.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)
And Jesus himself said that it is possible for someone to “take your crown.” (Revelation 3:11)
He also said in his remarks on the “end of the age”.... “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.” (Matthew 24:3, 13)
As I understand the scriptures, it is our standing with God that counts, not what we once were, whether good or bad. (Ezekiel 33:12-16) That is why we must continue working at what is good, continuing to practice right conduct, and do both with a healthy fear of falling short.
When it says to "believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved"....what does the word "believe" mean? James 2:17-20 says....
"....faith by itself, without works, is dead.
18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?" (ASV)
If the demons "believe" and are condemned, then what makes us think that we cannot be judged as unworthy of God's mercy if we lack the necessary repentance. If there is no repentance...there can be no forgiveness. Those who think grace is a license to sin are in for a rude shock. (Matthew 7:21-23)
The Apostle Paul did not subscribe to the view held by many denominations today, namely, ‘Once you are saved, you cannot lose your salvation.’
After accepting Jesus as our savior and redeemer, and dedicating our lives to doing God's will, we have only started on the way to salvation, not finished it. So Paul counsels us to ‘keep working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.’ (Philippians 2:12) Why “keep working” and why with “fear and trembling,” if ‘once saved, always saved’?'
The Bible says that it is possible to fall away, and impossible for certain of such ones to revive to repentance again, 'because they put the Son of God to death afresh, shaming him.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)
And Jesus himself said that it is possible for someone to “take your crown.” (Revelation 3:11)
He also said in his remarks on the “end of the age”.... “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.” (Matthew 24:3, 13)
As I understand the scriptures, it is our standing with God that counts, not what we once were, whether good or bad. (Ezekiel 33:12-16) That is why we must continue working at what is good, continuing to practice right conduct, and do both with a healthy fear of falling short.
When it says to "believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved"....what does the word "believe" mean? James 2:17-20 says....
"....faith by itself, without works, is dead.
18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?" (ASV)
If the demons "believe" and are condemned, then what makes us think that we cannot be judged as unworthy of God's mercy if we lack the necessary repentance. If there is no repentance...there can be no forgiveness. Those who think grace is a license to sin are in for a rude shock. (Matthew 7:21-23)
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[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. heb 10
If they shall fall away. . .
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. heb 10
If they shall fall away. . .
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6
YeshuaRedeemed
Revelation 3:10
I'm a Christian, and I agree with your statement. I lov Yeshua Jesus. I believe He is my Salvation.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I lean to story of a rebellion in heaven
and God's Favored led the movement
and that Angel with his followers were cast out
so....if God would take the right hand position from His Favored
then there is NO such thing as a secured position
a 'parting of the ways'.....can happen to anyone
and God's Favored led the movement
and that Angel with his followers were cast out
so....if God would take the right hand position from His Favored
then there is NO such thing as a secured position
a 'parting of the ways'.....can happen to anyone
No. We must stay alert, and never give up.
Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13
Even Paul said he hadn't - at that time - reached salvation yet:
Philippians 3:12-14
YeshuaRedeemed
Revelation 3:10
Fair enough, what about this verse? Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:30 - King James Version
YeshuaRedeemed
Revelation 3:10
Thief
Rogue Theologian
sealed into the day of redemption....
like getting an invitation to judgment day?
or a wedding feast?
there is no guarantee of the outcome.....except....
you end up alongside others like yourself
How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?
YeshuaRedeemed
Revelation 3:10
Citation, please?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
the Wedding Feast ....
by Jesus of Nazareth
What about that verse in context....?
Ephesians 4:17-32....(NASB)
"17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. 26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. 28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. 29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."
Once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you are under obligation to remain in his teachings, which allows for no deliberate sinning. We are to imitate our Master in everything.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
For once saved always saved to be true, then how is it that Yeshua (Jesus) can take a person name out of his book of Life ?
Revelation 3:5--" He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels"
Seeing how a person name is already there, now it depends on what that person does to keep it there.
So how does Once saved, Always saved, fit into Yeshua (Jesus) book of Life ?
Seeing how Yeshua ( Jesus ) can take a person name out of his book of Life.
Revelation 3:5--" He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels"
Seeing how a person name is already there, now it depends on what that person does to keep it there.
So how does Once saved, Always saved, fit into Yeshua (Jesus) book of Life ?
Seeing how Yeshua ( Jesus ) can take a person name out of his book of Life.
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Christianity has devoted much of its study to soteriology.
However the concept of "once saved always saved" is an invalid subset of such a belief in salvation.
It is not something I believe in at all, and it runs counter to the concept of God's judgement of us, and the need for repentance.
Jesus birth, death and resurrection certainly demonstrated our need of salvation, but the thought that it can be attained during our life time. is clearly erroneous, as we remain sinners. No sin is forgiven with out repentance. It is not possible to store up "Repentance" or to repent in advance.
I would suggest that the vast majority of us only achieve the blessing of salvation after death.
However the concept of "once saved always saved" is an invalid subset of such a belief in salvation.
It is not something I believe in at all, and it runs counter to the concept of God's judgement of us, and the need for repentance.
Jesus birth, death and resurrection certainly demonstrated our need of salvation, but the thought that it can be attained during our life time. is clearly erroneous, as we remain sinners. No sin is forgiven with out repentance. It is not possible to store up "Repentance" or to repent in advance.
I would suggest that the vast majority of us only achieve the blessing of salvation after death.
This is definitely what is taught in scripture. Salvation is a free gift but it has conditions. Life was not unconditional right from day one. It required obedience to God's commands.
That is an important point. So many people never had an opportunity to get to know the true God or to have heard of his Christ or the rulership of his kingdom in their lifetime.
The resurrection guarantees that both "the righteous and the unrighteous" will have their lives restored and those who are counted by God as "righteous" will no doubt help those "unrighteous" ones to gain a sound spiritual education so that they too can choose life in the "new earth" (2 Peter 3:13; John 5:28-29)
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
If what man teaches once saved is always saved to be true.
Then how is it in the book of Revelation, That Christ Jesus is found in saying.
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels"
Revelation 3:5
Seeing how people's name is written in Christ Jesus book of Life and Christ Jesus saying that he can take people's name out of his book of Life
Then how does man's teachings once saved always saved work, with what Christ Jesus saying in Revelation 3:5
Then how is it in the book of Revelation, That Christ Jesus is found in saying.
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels"
Revelation 3:5
Seeing how people's name is written in Christ Jesus book of Life and Christ Jesus saying that he can take people's name out of his book of Life
Then how does man's teachings once saved always saved work, with what Christ Jesus saying in Revelation 3:5