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Is Our Death Predetermined?

NathantheProfit

NathantheProfit

Member
It seems to me that concluding that an individual's trajectory is fixed because, in theory, all the laws that effect consciousness are fixed is a logical fallacy. Consciousness is different enough to non-consciousness (if there is such a thing) to open the possibility for it to operate by alternate- yet still potentially natural- rules. Saying consciousness is purely the effect of external causes and therefore its destiny is fixed is like concluding that there is no other life in the universe because we have not yet found any. At the very least, the possibility still exists. And as long as the argument for it is not a logical absurdity, it should remain equally as possible as an alternate theory that is also logically coherent yet still unproven (for those who will refer to neurological studies to point to freewill being an illusion, I just want to say that although I'm not going to go into it, I'm not convinced by those studies. But feel free to bring them up). I am not trying to appeal to randomness. I know randomness doesn't infer freedom. I am appealing to the still widely still unknown nature of reality, and thus the open possibility for something that is not an inherent logical absurdity (freewill) to abide within.

To conclude with the title of this thread: Do you think the when, where, and how of your inevitable death is fixed in stone? In addition, if you think that because the universe is indeterministic that your death is also indeterministic, how is this compatible with the view that consciousness is predetermined?
 
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Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
NathantheProfit said:
To conclude with the title of this thread: Do you think the when, where, and how of your inevitable death is fixed in stone? In addition, if you think that because the universe is indeterministic that your death is also indeterministic, how is this compatible with the view that consciousness is predetermined?
Click to expand...

I think in my late 20, I went to a fortune teller, a palm reader. Mostly just to see what it was like.

There are 3 things he told me that I remember.

1. That I'll never be rich but I will always have enough money.

2. That I will have a lot of sickness/illness in my life.

3. That I will live until I'm 78.

The first two have been pretty accurate.

Has my life been determined by the palm of my hand? I don't know. I suppose I'm waiting until I turn 79 before deciding it was all a bunch of crock.

I think we have some limited self-determination through the duality created by the conscious/subconscious mind.
 
NathantheProfit

NathantheProfit

Member
Nakosis said:
Has my life been determined by the palm of my hand? I don't know. I suppose I'm waiting until I turn 79 before deciding it was all a bunch of crock.
Click to expand...

Better load up on life insurance while you still can. If the insurance companies found out about that prediction, it might affect your premiums.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
NathantheProfit said:
It seems to me that concluding that an individual's trajectory is fixed because, in theory, all the laws that effect consciousness are fixed is a logical fallacy. Consciousness is different enough to non-consciousness (if there is such a thing) to open the possibility for it to operate by alternate- yet still potentially natural- rules. Saying consciousness is purely the effect of external causes and therefore its destiny is fixed is like concluding that there is no other life in the universe because we have not yet found any. At the very least, the possibility still exists. And as long as the argument for it is not a logical absurdity, it should remain equally as possible as an alternate theory that is also logically coherent yet still unproven (for those who will refer to neurological studies to point to freewill being an illusion, I just want to say that although I'm not going to go into it, I'm not convinced by those studies. But feel free to bring them up). I am not trying to appeal to randomness. I know randomness doesn't infer freedom. I am appealing to the still widely still unknown nature of reality, and thus the open possibility for something that is not an inherent logical absurdity (freewill) to abide within.

To conclude with the title of this thread: Do you think the when, where, and how of your inevitable death is fixed in stone? In addition, if you think that because the universe is indeterministic that your death is also indeterministic, how is this compatible with the view that consciousness is predetermined?
Click to expand...
No. From the Bible's perspective, here's what Jesus said: Luke 13:2-4..... these people who died, were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

And Ecclesiastes 9:11... the strong do not always win the battle, because "time and unexpected events overtake them all."

IOW, any event - even fatal ones - can occur at any time.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Assuming you have no superhuman powers giving you everlasting life, yes, your death has been predetermined by the natural mortality of life. Eventually you will die.

.
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
NathantheProfit said:
It seems to me that concluding that an individual's trajectory is fixed because, in theory, all the laws that effect consciousness are fixed is a logical fallacy. Consciousness is different enough to non-consciousness (if there is such a thing) to open the possibility for it to operate by alternate- yet still potentially natural- rules. Saying consciousness is purely the effect of external causes and therefore its destiny is fixed is like concluding that there is no other life in the universe because we have not yet found any. At the very least, the possibility still exists. And as long as the argument for it is not a logical absurdity, it should remain equally as possible as an alternate theory that is also logically coherent yet still unproven (for those who will refer to neurological studies to point to freewill being an illusion, I just want to say that although I'm not going to go into it, I'm not convinced by those studies. But feel free to bring them up). I am not trying to appeal to randomness. I know randomness doesn't infer freedom. I am appealing to the still widely still unknown nature of reality, and thus the open possibility for something that is not an inherent logical absurdity (freewill) to abide within.

To conclude with the title of this thread: Do you think the when, where, and how of your inevitable death is fixed in stone? In addition, if you think that because the universe is indeterministic that your death is also indeterministic, how is this compatible with the view that consciousness is predetermined?
Click to expand...
Yes.
You will die.
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
I don't think it's predetermined because of any mechanistic properties of physics in the brain or anything; I believe it's predestined because God has already created the universe.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
NathantheProfit said:
I meant the exact nature of your death: when where how and even why.
Click to expand...
Ahhh. Then the answer is still yes, your death has been determined. In as much as you and all the forces around you can't be any different than what you and they are. Your destiny; its where, when, how, and why is sealed. It's predetermined. So it back and enjoy or suffer---whatever the case may be---the ride.

.
 
osgart

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Theres always going to be one outcome that becomes every given moment, but that often lies beyond prediction and every other possibility hangs in the balance. If only we knew the outcome before it happened, then we could prepare against its happening. Will and knowledge can prevent what seems predetermined to happen. But ultimatelty too many occurences lay well beyond grasp.
 
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