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Is owning Guns good or bad?

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Jonny inspired this thread with his becoming a man thread... and I happened to have purchased another gun yesterday (I have many).

QUESTIONS: (pick any or all)

Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).

Would you personally ever own a gun? why?

Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?
 

jacquie4000

Well-Known Member
It all depends in how you are raised and what the purpose is that you have a gun.
It can be fine and it can be bad. My dad collected guns for many years. They were never misused. He mostly just liked them. Shot some cans and targets.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
comprehend said:
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).
Depends on the person who owns the gun. Responsible people = good. Irresponsible, stupid people = bad.

Would you personally ever own a gun? why?

I own a gun, although it is not in my possession at this time. For my 12th birthday my grandfather gave me the rife that he bought when he was 12 years old. Right now my brother has it because has other guns and keeps it cleaned and maintained for me. Plus, when the kids were born I didn't want it in the house while they were growing up.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Coming from a country where guns are illegal (unless you have a license for a specific purpose, eg. farmers have guns for shooting vermin) i'd say they were bad. Just look at the number of gun related deaths you have in the US compared to here in the UK.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).
That depends on the person.

Would you personally ever own a gun? why?
Yup. I'd like to have more than one actually...a practical gun for home defense and a .45 single action revolver for fun.

Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?
How could I know? I think there is definitely a reason we have a right in the US to own guns. Our founding fathers weren't stupid.
 

ch'ang

artist in training
comprehend said:
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).

The more guns the better, so good in any case.

comptehend said:
Would you personally ever own a gun? why?

Yes I have many

comprehend said:
Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?

An armed populace is always good but I doubt it does anything to stop despotism, people are far to weak. Remeber just because someone owns a gun does not mean they have the mental fortitude to use it, even when they think they should.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It's written into our constitution, so I am remiss to want to see gun ownership end. HOWEVER, the gratuitous violence and random carnage simply sickens me.

I own a Brittish Enfield from WWII. It was used in combat and I keep it as a reminder of what man is capable of doing to his brother. It shoots fine, and whenever I have it out, I ponder if it ever took someone's life.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
comprehend said:
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).

Depends on who is usuing the gun. I'm not a gun enthusiast, but I would like to learn how to shoot. Instead, we keep knives (my husband collects them) around our apartment. As soon as we have children, those knives will go under lockdown as well as any guns we may have by then.

comprehend said:
Would you personally ever own a gun? why?

Yes. I'm not really sure why
.

comprehend said:
Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?

Not necessarily. As Halycon pointed out, we seem to have a lot more gun crimes here.
 

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).

Good!

Would you personally ever own a gun? why?

Yes! i just bought a new one yesterday. I have two pistols I use for concealed carry for personal protection. I carry every day but pray i will never use it.

Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?

I feel it is good. It is every single person's right to protect themselves from attack. Criminals have little fear from an unarmed poplulation. But with these rights comes great responsibility. I feel everyone who wants to carry a gun should be able to as long as they show they are responsible and trained to do so.
 

Fluffy

A fool
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).
I think that owning a gun comes with a degree of responsibility and that a failure to recognise and act on that responsibility is immoral.

There does not seem to be a consistent correlation between gun laws and gun crime suggesting that factors other than the availability of guns and ownership of guns lead to the sin that I describe above.

Would you personally ever own a gun? why?
Yes. For many reasons but primarily for defence and decentralising power. It certainly has nothing to do with pieces of paper.

Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?
No. Despotism results from organised power. An armed populace is either splintered and so too weak to respond or organised itself and so merely replacing one despotism with another.
 

evearael

Well-Known Member
Owning a gun is morally neutral. I take no issue with a responsible gun owner without ill-intent. I oppose irresponsible gun owners and/or ones with ill intent. We do own a firearm and are likely to purchase more with time. An armed populous could be good or bad depending on culture.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
comprehend said:
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).
I don't think they are inherently good or bad, but growing up in a country where gun ownership is not a big deal, I utterly fail to grasp this "American" phenomena.


comprehend said:
Would you personally ever own a gun? why?
Um, no. To be honest, I am uncomfortable even being around guns. To me, I think that guns imbue their owners with a false sense of power that they may not feel otherwise.


comprehend said:
Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?
I don't know. I do not think that an armed populace is necessarily a good thing. I am more curious why people feel a need to have a weapon at their disposal "if needed". I don't know about you but I do not live in a hostile universe that is "out to get me" so I don't feel a need to be armed to the teeth lest anyone darken my door.


As far as the "sporting" aspects go, I think if the bears, deer and whatnot were also armed in kind, that might prove rather interesting. Perhaps, if things were on a more level playing field then it might be termed “sporting”.

Being Canadian, I'm afraid I just don't get the fascination for weaponry in general. I would go as far as to say that folks in Canada who have a lot of guns are generally seen as a bit peculiar.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Comp said:
Do you think owning guns is good or bad. (generally).
President Hinckley has counseled us not to have guns in our homes.

My uncle and his son had a collection of rifles in their home and his son committed suicide with one of these rifles a few days before he was to give his missionary farewell talk.

The temptation of someone in the household to use the gun unwisely, such as in a state of anger or depression is just too risky...

If you don't think this happens then ask the husband of the woman in my last ward who pointed her husbands gun at her head and killed herself. My landlord was their home teacher at the time and filled me in on what had happened.

Then later in our stake another boy took his fathers gun and killed himself.

At least lock them up in a cabinet or something and keep the key with you at all times, but that still doesn't rule out the owner from suddenly getting an urge to do something stupid with his gun.

We were just talking about that yesterday at work and one co-worker said I don't want a gun in my possession because I might do something stupid if I ever get in a state of rage/anger against someone I know.... He was "dead" serious....

He was wise enough to see the temptation of using a gun in the wrong way if he had one in close proximity.

Get them out of the house.

My father owned several rifles and pistols which we were allowed to shoot when very young, but only with his extremely close supervision.

He is a marriage and family counselor and has had too many people call him in a panic because his/her spouse or family member had just killed his or herself with a gun.

He later got rid of all his guns, I think because he didn't want to be responsible for any of us ever using his guns in a wrong way. He sold them just before the strict gun laws started going into affect so many years ago. His only regret was that he didn't wait to sell them at a higher price when these laws went into affect...

That was like 20 years ago and he still doesn't own a gun to this day...
 

jmaster78

Member
This is crazy, given their purpose, how can so many religious people own so many guns! You can't justify it by saying 'it's ok if the person is sensible' even sensible people act irrationally under emotional stress. you could be the calmest peace loving person in the world, maybe never been in a fight in your life, loved and respected by everyone, then something happens and you reach for the gun. it was a one off, a momentary loss of control....but someone is left badly injured or worse. I wonder how many people have killed because of this scenario. Take america for instance, can you honestly deny the number of gun related deaths are related to your lax gun laws? This thread has seriously altered my perception of the people on RF, I thought this was a comunity of sensible people wanting a better world!
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
NoahideHiker said:
Yes! i just bought a new one yesterday. I have two pistols I use for concealed carry for personal protection. I carry every day but pray i will never use it.

That is amazing. I bought another yesterday for my CCP too. What did you get? I bought a kimber Ultra RCP II. They are on back order for 8 weeks though, so I am waiting to get it.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
FFH said:
President Hinckley has counseled us not to have guns in our homes.

Without wanting to turn this into an LDS debate, FFH, do you have a source for that claim?

Alma 48:
11 And Moroni was a strong and a mighty man; he was a man of a perfect understanding; yea, a man that did not delight in bloodshed; a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country, and his brethren from bondage and slavery;

12 Yea, a man whose heart did swell with thanksgiving to his God, for the many privileges and blessings which he bestowed upon his people; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people.

13 Yea, and he was a man who was firm in the faith of Christ, and he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood.

14 Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
jmaster78 said:
This is crazy, given their purpose, how can so many religious people own so many guns! You can't justify it by saying 'it's ok if the person is sensible' even sensible people act irrationally under emotional stress. you could be the calmest peace loving person in the world, maybe never been in a fight in your life, loved and respected by everyone, then something happens and you reach for the gun. it was a one off, a momentary loss of control....but someone is left badly injured or worse. I wonder how many people have killed because of this scenario. Take america for instance, can you honestly deny the number of gun related deaths are related to your lax gun laws? This thread has seriously altered my perception of the people on RF, I thought this was a comunity of sensible people wanting a better world!
I agree totally...

Guns should not be in a person's home, that's what security systems and police are for, to detract thieves and other intruders.

Even if you had a gun you would legally have to wait for that person to shoot first before firing of a shot at the intruder or you would definitely be spending some serious time in prison....and even if they fired first, do you have any witnesses ??? It's your word against the law enforcement community and they don't take kindly to gun owners...

Guns don't really help to deter crime, because there is really no time to react in a dangerous situation, unless you are trained to do so...

Guns in the home are only a temptation to do something stupid.

I don't own a gun and never will....
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
YmirGF said:
I don't think they are inherently good or bad, but growing up in a country where gun ownership is not a big deal, I utterly fail to grasp this "American" phenomena.


I think the day will come that you will see what the big deal is... :)

Um, no. To be honest, I am uncomfortable even being around guns. To me, I think that guns imbue their owners with a false sense of power that they may not feel otherwise.
That may be the case for some. But it also imbues owners with a very real power. It is the great equalizer. It allows 110 pound women to be safe where they might otherwise be at anyone's mercy. It allows one lone man to defend himself against 5 would be assailants. Guns in the hands of honest people empower the weak to defend against the strong. Yes the strong can use guns too, but a 12 year old girl could defend herself against a 230 pound man if she knows how to use a gun.

Being Canadian, I'm afraid I just don't get the fascination for weaponry in general. I would go as far as to say that folks in
Canada who have a lot of guns are generally seen as a bit peculiar.

That's ok, from where I am sitting, folks in Canada are generally seen as peculiar no matter if they own a gun or not. :D (KIDDING).
 

FFH

Veteran Member
comprehend said:
Without wanting to turn this into an LDS debate, FFH, do you have a source for that claim?

Alma 48:
11 And Moroni was a strong and a mighty man; he was a man of a perfect understanding; yea, a man that did not delight in bloodshed; a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country, and his brethren from bondage and slavery;

12 Yea, a man whose heart did swell with thanksgiving to his God, for the many privileges and blessings which he bestowed upon his people; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people.

13 Yea, and he was a man who was firm in the faith of Christ, and he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood.

14 Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives.
We are to defend our homes and our families unto bloodshed, but that's the job of our local military and police force.

There are ways to fortify our homes other than with weapons these days. Cameras, real or fake, are effective dterrents of crime.

I use prayer and ask angels to literally stand guard around the property where I live and it seems to work, for I live in a wealthier area where thieves love to prowl around and used to worry about that all the time...

I remember awakening one night because I had a dream that a demonic being was taunting me and I could here a crazy person just outside on the main road at about 3 a.m. who was cussing and saying a bunch of crazy stuff. It shook me up and I later thanked God he passed on by without coming onto our property.

Another guy who had been in prison for a while was out on parole next door and we had to really say our prayers that guy wouldn't bother us and he eventually moved away or was put back into prison.

I leave work late at night and always wonder if someone is going to jump me or storm into the store before I make my nightly deposit. I have to rely on prayer, not guns and knives like my fellow employees seem to have. Switchblades are popular among our delivery drivers in case they get jumped for their cash....

I knew a guy that carried marbles in his pocket because he said they were extremely effective when trying to stun or seriously injure another so he could easily take him down if help didn't arrive in time and then he wouldn't be in trouble for carrying a concealed weapon and using it....;)

I'll search for that quote by President Hinckley, just a minute, or I'm sure you have it in your LDS encyclopedia/program you have on CD.
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FFH

Veteran Member
From a talk given by Dallin H. Oaks Bible Stories and Personal Protection

All over the world, faithful Latter-day Saints are protected from the powers of the evil one and his servants until they have finished their missions in mortality. For some the mortal mission is brief, as with some valiant young men who have lost their lives in missionary service. But for most of us the mortal journey is long, and we continue our course with the protection of guardian angels.

During my life I have had many experiences of being guided in what I should do and in being protected from injury and also from evil. The Lord’s protecting care has shielded me from the evil acts of others and has also protected me from surrendering to my own worst impulses. I enjoyed that protection one warm summer night on the streets of Chicago. I have never shared this experience in public. I do so now because it is a persuasive illustration of my subject.

My wife, June, had attended a ward officers’ meeting. When I came to drive her home, she was accompanied by a sister we would take home on our way. She lived in the nearby Woodlawn area, which was the territory of a gang called the Blackstone Rangers.

I parked at the curb outside this sister’s apartment house and accompanied her into the lobby and up the stairs to her door. June remained in the car on 61st Street. She locked all of the doors, and I left the keys in the ignition in case she needed to drive away. We had lived on the south side of Chicago for quite a few years and were accustomed to such precautions.

Back in the lobby, and before stepping out into the street, I looked carefully in each direction. By the light of a nearby streetlight, I could see that the street was deserted except for three young men walking by. I waited until they were out of sight and then walked quickly toward our car.

As I came to the driver’s side and paused for June to unlock the door, I saw one of these young men running back toward me. He had something in his right hand, and I knew what it would be. There was no time to get into the car and drive away before he came within range.

Fortunately, as June leaned across to open the door, she glanced through the back window and saw this fellow coming around the end of the car with a gun in his hand. Wisely, she did not unlock the door. For the next two or three minutes, which seemed like an eternity, she was a horrified spectator to an event happening at her eye level, just outside the driver’s window.

The young man pushed the gun against my stomach and said, “Give me your money.” I took the wallet out of my pocket and showed him it was empty. I wasn’t even wearing a watch I could offer him because my watchband had broken earlier that day. I offered him some coins I had in my pocket, but he growled a rejection.

“Give me your car keys,” he demanded. “They are in the car,” I told him. “Tell her to open the car,” he replied. For a moment I considered the new possibilities that would present, and then refused. He was furious. He jabbed me in the stomach with his gun and said, “Do it, or I’ll kill you.”

Although this event happened twenty-two years ago, I remember it as clearly as if it were yesterday. I read somewhere that nothing concentrates the mind as wonderfully as having someone stand in front of you with a deadly weapon and tell you he intends to kill you.

When I refused, the young robber repeated his demands, this time emphasizing them with an angrier tone and more motion with his gun. I remember thinking that he probably wouldn’t shoot me on purpose, but if he wasn’t careful in the way he kept jabbing that gun into my stomach, he might shoot me by mistake. His gun looked like a cheap one, and I was nervous about its firing mechanism.

“Give me your money.” “I don’t have any.” “Give me your car keys.” “They’re in the car.” “Tell her to open the car.” “I won’t do it.” “I’ll kill you if you don’t.” “I won’t do it.”

Inside the car June couldn’t hear the conversation, but she could see the action with the gun. She agonized over what she should do. Should she unlock the door? Should she honk the horn? Should she drive away? Everything she considered seemed to have the possibility of making matters worse, so she just waited and prayed. Then a peaceful feeling came over her. She felt it would be all right.

Then, for the first time, I saw the possibility of help. From behind the robber, a city bus approached. It stopped about twenty feet away. A passenger stepped off and scurried away. The driver looked directly at me, but I could see that he was not going to offer any assistance.

While this was happening behind the young robber, out of his view, he became nervous and distracted. His gun wavered from my stomach until its barrel pointed slightly to my left. My arm was already partly raised, and with a quick motion I could seize the gun and struggle with him without the likelihood of being shot. I was taller and heavier than this young man, and at that time of my life was somewhat athletic. I had no doubt that I could prevail in a quick wrestling match if I could get his gun out of the contest.

Just as I was about to make my move, I had a unique experience. I did not see anything or hear anything, but I knew something. I knew what would happen if I grabbed that gun. We would struggle, and I would turn the gun into that young man’s chest. It would fire, and he would die. I also understood that I must not have the blood of that young man on my conscience for the rest of my life.

I relaxed, and as the bus pulled away I followed an impulse to put my right hand on his shoulder and give him a lecture. June and I had some teenage children at that time, and giving lectures came naturally.

“Look here,” I said. “This isn’t right. What you’re doing just isn’t right. The next car might be a policeman, and you could get killed or sent to jail for this.”

With the gun back in my stomach, the young robber replied to my lecture by going through his demands for the third time. But this time his voice was subdued. When he offered the final threat to kill me, he didn’t sound persuasive. When I refused again, he hesitated for a moment and then stuck the gun in his pocket and ran away. June unlocked the door, and we drove off, uttering a prayer of thanks. We had experienced the kind of miraculous protection illustrated in the Bible stories I had read as a boy.

I have often pondered the significance of that event in relation to the responsibilities that came later in my life. Less than a year after that August night, I was chosen as president of Brigham Young University. Almost fourteen years after that experience, I received my present calling.
 
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