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Is part of Abdul Baha's will a forgery?

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I was reading a website that was talking about Baha'i sects and putting forth an argument that the part of Abdul Baha's will that names Shoghi Effendi as the guardian of the faith is forged, because the concept of a guardian is never mentioned by Baha'ullah anywhere.

An interesting after thought is that Baha'ullah and Abdul Baha both wrote that the faith's authority was to be passed along to descendents of Baha'ullah to keep the faith unified. Shoghi Effendi had no children and he left no successor, meaning he ultimately failed in this criteria.
 
I think there's alot of problems with the Last Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha.

Firstly, it doesn't sound like him or any of his former writings or speeches. The Will sounds very authoritarian and stern, which is unlike 'Abdu'l-Baha.

Second, it introduced shunning, which I personally can never consider it an amr'u'llah, a commandment of God. 'Abdu'l-Baha introduced something that was NOT Baha'u'llah's teaching. 'Abdu'l-Baha, in his position as 'the Master' as some Haifan Baha'is have called him, was to be an interpreter, and not any thing higher. To me, he is nothing higher than a philosopher, and I take Baha'u'llah's stature as a prophet much, much higher than 'Abdu'l-Baha.

Plus, Shoghi Effendi completely shunned the rest of Baha'u'llah's family and called them 'Covenant-Breakers.' For that, I will never have the same view of Shoghi Effendi much anymore again.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Yes I had noticed that as well, that Shoghi Effendi pretty much excommunicated Baha'ullah's entire remaining family from the spiritual assembly.
 
Yes I had noticed that as well, that Shoghi Effendi pretty much excommunicated Baha'ullah's entire remaining family from the spiritual assembly.

Yes. The claim was that Baha'u'llah's family, who were followers of Ghusn-i-Akbar (theologically they rejected guardianship and believed rather that all authority comes in Baha'u'llah's Revelation alone, and not in anyone else), 'Abdu'l-Baha's younger brother, were vile and seeking to 'attack the Cause of God.'

When reading about these things in Baha'i papers, there is definitely an us-versus-them, that Shoghi Effendi's line is completely divinely ordained, and the 'Covenant-Breakers' seek nothing but to destroy that Unity.

Red flag signs of authoritarianism and control of history, in my opinion.
 

Sen McGlinn

Member
I was reading a website that was talking about Baha'i sects and putting forth an argument that the part of Abdul Baha's will that names Shoghi Effendi as the guardian of the faith is forged, because the concept of a guardian is never mentioned by Baha'ullah anywhere.

An interesting after thought is that Baha'ullah and Abdul Baha both wrote that the faith's authority was to be passed along to descendents of Baha'ullah to keep the faith unified. Shoghi Effendi had no children and he left no successor, meaning he ultimately failed in this criteria.

There's no doubt about the authenticity of Abdu'l-Baha's will:
- Ahmad Sohrab, who was Abdu'l-Baha's secretary and rebelled against Shoghi Effendi, nevertheless stated that it was all in Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting. He should know. See his analysis of the Will ( http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/diglib/books/P-T/S/sohrab/WTAB011.gif )
- Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting was quite familiar to tens of thousands of Persian Bahais, and the Will was circulated to them in photostat - nobody has ever questioned that it is Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting, except for one English forensic expert who could not read the language, was not informed that the Will itself says its three parts were written at different times (so he thought it was written by 3 different people!), and who was given a sample of Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting which ended with Abdu'l-Baha's signature (some words he wrote in the flyleaf of a Bible), but the 'expert' did not even notice this, and used other specimen signatures that may not have been from Abdu'l-Baha at all. (see 'Mitchell's Mistake' )
- The Will was found in Abdu'l-Baha's own safe, still sealed.
- Its various provisions, except for the Guardianship, had already been outlined by Abdu'l-Baha in numerous talks and letters, going back at least to 1900 in the West, and maybe earlier in his letters to the East. This includes the 'harsh' sections, because Abdu'l-Baha's brother, Muhammad 'Ali, did not wait for Abdu'l-Baha to die before making his claims - his rebellion began soon after Baha'u'llah's death in 1892. Abdu'l-Baha kept the rebellion confidential as long as he could, but then Muhammad Ali started sending letters to the Persian Bahais denouncing Abdu'l-Baha, so Muhammad Ali had condemned himself by his own words. At that point the bulk of the Bahais turned their backs on Muhammad Ali, simply sending his letters to Abdu'l-Baha and not replying to them. This is the Bahai practice known as "shunning covenant-breakers:" not engaging with them means that the fruits of their ideas and morals will become clear over time, without the Bahais muddying the waters by mixing with them.

It's true that Baha'u'llah does not mention a Guardian, although he does mention a role of honour for the Aghsan, his male descendants, and in several places says that if one of them is not faithful, he is cut off. Baha'u'llah speaks extensively of the Houses of Justice, and of one elected Universal House of Justice. This is the system that governs the Bahai community today. As Abdu'l-Baha grew older, he could see that conditions were not right for this to be established, since the bulk of the Bahais in the East were living under persecution and the required "free and fair" Bahai elections could not be conducted. It might have been done in the West alone, but that would have produced a Universal House of Justice that was not a good reflection of the Bahai community around the world. He had obvious reasons for keeping the appointment of Shoghi Effendi as Guardian confidential: Shoghi Effendi was young, and if the existence of an office of Guardian was known, without naming its holder, it would have become a focus for dissension by ambitious people. So he didn't even tell Shoghi Effendi about it.

It's a bit misleading to speak of "Bahai sects" as if there existed competing models of the Bahai Faith. Naturally everyone can set up their own Bahai Faith if they want to, but these things come and go, and have never amounted to more than a handful of people at any one time. Baha'u'llah appointed Abdu'l-Baha in writing, Abdu'l-Baha appointed Shoghi Effendi in writing, and Baha'u'llah wrote the charter for the House of Justice and Abdu'l-Baha specified how it was to be elected, so the Bahai Faith is in the unique position among religions of having a leadership structure that is scripturally specified. And that makes it impossible for religious entrepreneurs to succeed with a competing system based on Bahai scripture.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member

I was reading a website that was talking about Baha'i sects and putting forth an argument that the part of Abdul Baha's will that names Shoghi Effendi as the guardian of the faith is forged, because the concept of a guardian is never mentioned by Baha'ullah anywhere.

As Sen has already explained, that's a red herring that was put forth by a few covenant-breakers and opponents of the Faith--two in particular--but which has been thoroughly refuted since then, to the extent that NO Baha'i today believes any such thing!

One of the most recent proofs of all this is found in the book Making the Crooked Straight, which devotes a large section to disproving the claims these individuals made about the "claims" these individuals raised. (If you check around among the Baha'is, you may well be able to find a copy of this book so you can read the proofs yourself.)

And as to the cessation of the Guardianship, what the detractors fail to mention is that 'Abdu'l-Baha stated explicitly in his will that any further Guardians had to be descendants of Baha'u'llah, and by the time of Shoghi Effendi's death there were no such Baha'is eligible for this office.

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member



As Sen has already explained, that's a red herring that was put forth by a few covenant-breakers and opponents of the Faith--two in particular--but which has been thoroughly refuted since then, to the extent that NO Baha'i today believes any such thing!

The people that call themselves 'Baha'i' that agree with that assessment would probably disagree with you.
 


Save that such groups are now extinct. I know of NO group extant today that dispute's 'Abdu'l-Baha's will!

Bruce

Unitarian Bahais, and those who are also Unitarian Universalists and have Bahai beliefs will disagree with you. :)

And I assure you, that there are more than two of us. There's one more person at my church who also does not believe in Abdu'l-Baha's will and is a Unitarian Universalist Bahai.

Our Yahoo group and Facebook group has about 60 members. :)
 
As for the UU Bahais... you guys are directly contradicting the principle of the Faith which is unity. You say oh these writings will help me in my spiritual journey but these won't... so i'll ignore them. What would Baha'u'llah think of your little splinter faction? You are breaking the Covenant.
 
As for the UU Bahais... you guys are directly contradicting the principle of the Faith which is unity. You say oh these writings will help me in my spiritual journey but these won't... so i'll ignore them. What would Baha'u'llah think of your little splinter faction? You are breaking the Covenant.

Ya Baha'ul-Abha! :bahai2:

God loves you too. :rolleyes:
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
As for the UU Bahais... you guys are directly contradicting the principle of the Faith which is unity. You say oh these writings will help me in my spiritual journey but these won't... so i'll ignore them. What would Baha'u'llah think of your little splinter faction? You are breaking the Covenant.

Please... don't start in with that crap. Unity my white ***.

In case you didn't notice, the Baha'i faith had a major fight every single generation of its existence. Of the religions that have splintered, the Baha'i faith has produced the most fail I've ever seen with regards to unity.

:rolleyes:
 
Please... don't start in with that crap. Unity my white ***.

In case you didn't notice, the Baha'i faith had a major fight every single generation of its existence. Of the religions that have splintered, the Baha'i faith has produced the most fail I've ever seen with regards to unity.

:rolleyes:

Which is why, unlike most Baha'is, I have come to read the ideas of unity (and the rest of Baha'u'llah's Words) as a largely spiritual one, or a metaphorical one, built not out of conformity in bringing people into one religion, but rather for the common Cause of tolerance, respect, freedom of belief, and goodwill to all humankind.

Otherwise, it is nothing but 'ideal-worship' in which there is no reality behind these lofty ideals. I try to understand the Baha'i Faith as a practical, rational and highly personal religion for myself, rather than a fundamentalist institution made for complete conglomerate copy-and-paste 'unity.'
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
That would be great!

It would be good to see the perspective of the Bayanis who see the Baha'is as complete heretics. It would definitely substantiate the religious history without the one-sided biases that I was confronted with in the past.

Yeah. There's also that whole 'independent investigation of truth' thing, too.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
The Baha'i faith had a major fight every single generation of its existence.

And what you ignore is that most of those divisions are already extinct!

A few remain, but are TINY (a few dozen or maybe a few hundred individuals), contrasted with seven million Baha'is! EVERY religion tends to have a few dissidents; no big deal: they'll eventually disappear, too.

What I'd like to see is a translation of Subh-i-Azal's writings.
The Bayan

Sigh.

Wrong again!

The Bayan is scripture of the BABI Faith, not anything by Azal! All he ever did was alter a few extant scriptural works by others to make it appear he was named in them.

And as such, the Bayan is also part of the Baha'i scriptures and has already had sections published and made immediately available online, which you can see by simply visiting the bahai-library.org site!

Meaning no offense, you just might find a bit more familiarity with the Babi and Baha'i Faiths most helpful for producing sensible postings.

Bruce
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
Okay. That's great. The reason I linked it is because they have writings by Subh-i-Azal on their website. Of course, I can't compare them to anything written by the Baha'is because the writings are still in Persian and Arabic.

Also, you missed the point of my post. It doesn't matter if they're extinct. It matters that they happened again and again.
 
A few remain, but are TINY (a few dozen or maybe a few hundred individuals), contrasted with seven million Baha'is! EVERY religion tends to have a few dissidents; no big deal: they'll eventually disappear, too.


I'm sure that's what the Catholics and Protestants thought about the Quakers and the other Anabaptist tradition when they tried to quash them.



Sigh.

Wrong again!

The Bayan is scripture of the BABI Faith, not anything by Azal! All he ever did was alter a few extant scriptural works by others to make it appear he was named in them.

And as such, the Bayan is also part of the Baha'i scriptures and has already had sections published and made immediately available online, which you can see by simply visiting the bahai-library.org site!



Sigh. Wrong again~!


The Babis now like to be called 'Bayanis' which means 'followers of the Bayan. Furthermore, they see Subh-i-Azal as the successor of the Bayani Faith, and thus his writings are merited as part of their tradition.


And as such, bits and pieces of the Bayan does not mean the whole Bayan in itself, in both the Persian and Arabic form. There is a whole provisional translation done in French on the Bayani website, but otherwise, there is no 'official' English translation as of yet.

Meaning no offense, you just might find a bit more familiarity with the Babi and Baha'i Faiths most helpful for producing sensible postings.

Wow, tongue of fire, dude! :areyoucra
 
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