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Is peace most required for spread of Islam? Yes, of course it is, undoubtedly.

gnostic

The Lost One
This isn't a debate at all.
No, it is a debate.

He is ignoring the last 10 or 11 years of Muhammad's life where he lead his followers into wars that he started.

I am thinking that if copy-and-paste enough junk articles and if he ignored us long enough, he think we will either give up or forget we ever mention what he did in Medina and afterward.

It is delaying and evasive tactics. He did the same thing in another topic, when he posted tonnes of Wiki articles, but the sad thing is that he often never read the entire articles or understood them, which contradict his claims that Islam never started in those countries through conquests. Pathetic and transparent tactics, and demonstration of ignorance of what he quoted, really.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
............
You are restoring the virtues which had disappeared from our country. You treat guests with honour and help those who are in distress. Can you be subjected by God to any trial ? (Bukhari) . Having said this, Khadija took the Prophet to her cousin, Waraqa bin Naufal, a Christian. When he heard the account Waraqa said : "The angel who descended on Moses, I am sure, has de- scended on you" (Bukhari).”
.........
Peace be on you.
1=What was religion of Hazrat Khadijah (r.a) then?
2=Was Warqah (ra) expecting a promised advent?
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
....
Indeed, if Muhammad was "peaceful, never violent, ever", then Surah 9 (which to summarise, rails against the polytheists and exhorts Muslims to distance themselves from and fight polytheists) would never have been written and would make no sense. It only makes sense in the context of encouraging aggressive war against non-Muslims.....
Peace be on all.
Surah 8 and Surah 9 are connected and there is subject of divine promise and its fulfilment mentioned:

image372.gif


image373.gif


Ref: https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=357&region=EN&CR=E1,E2
and next page.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I read about Mormons meanwhile. I notice, they too have the wrong idea about Hazrat Jesus (a..s.) being part of God

They actually don't. They're a Unitarian sect; they believe that Jesus was a distinct entity from God just as any man's son is a distinct entity from his father.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
They actually don't. They're a Unitarian sect; they believe that Jesus was a distinct entity from God just as any man's son is a distinct entity from his father.
Peace be on you.

Joseph Smith said:
" I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!"

"......the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible...."

Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)


SERMON BY THE PROPHET—THE CHRISTIAN GODHEAD—PLURALITY OF GODS.

Meeting in the Grove, east of the Temple, June 16, 1844.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/smithpluralityofgodssermon.htm




"There are three separate persons in the Godhead: God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost. We believe in each of them (A of F 1:1). From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, without flesh and bone (D&C 130:22–23). These three persons are one in perfect unity and harmony of purpose and doctrine (John 17:21–23; 2 Ne. 31:21; 3 Ne. 11:27, 36)."
Ref:https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/god-godhead?lang=eng&letter=g


"Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost (A of F 1). These three Gods form the Godhead, which holds the keys of power over the universe. Each member of the Godhead is an independent personage, separate and distinct from the other two, the three being in perfect unity and harmony with each other (AF, chap. 2)."
Ref:http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Godhead


=======

From other camp:

"
Since the Trinity is one of those subjects that Mormons laugh at and mock, I take them to 2 Nephi 31:21 which reads:

“….And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.”

Then I ask them why they don’t believe in the Trinity since it is taught in the Book of Mormon, which Joseph Smith said is the most correct book on the face of the earth."
http://www.4witness.org/how-to-use-the-book-of-mormon-to-prove-the-trinity/



=== So one easily concludes that according to Mormons, Jesus is part of God, whatever words maybe used.
 
Last edited:

Kirran

Premium Member
It very clearly says they believe in three separate Gods. Actually they believe in an infinite number but only three have jurisdiction here.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Peace be on you.

Joseph Smith said:
" I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!"

"......the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible...."

Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)


SERMON BY THE PROPHET—THE CHRISTIAN GODHEAD—PLURALITY OF GODS.

Meeting in the Grove, east of the Temple, June 16, 1844.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/smithpluralityofgodssermon.htm




"There are three separate persons in the Godhead: God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost. We believe in each of them (A of F 1:1). From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, without flesh and bone (D&C 130:22–23). These three persons are one in perfect unity and harmony of purpose and doctrine (John 17:21–23; 2 Ne. 31:21; 3 Ne. 11:27, 36)."
Ref:https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/god-godhead?lang=eng&letter=g


"Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost (A of F 1). These three Gods form the Godhead, which holds the keys of power over the universe. Each member of the Godhead is an independent personage, separate and distinct from the other two, the three being in perfect unity and harmony with each other (AF, chap. 2)."
Ref:http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Godhead


=======

From other camp:

"
Since the Trinity is one of those subjects that Mormons laugh at and mock, I take them to 2 Nephi 31:21 which reads:

“….And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.”

Then I ask them why they don’t believe in the Trinity since it is taught in the Book of Mormon, which Joseph Smith said is the most correct book on the face of the earth."
http://www.4witness.org/how-to-use-the-book-of-mormon-to-prove-the-trinity/



=== So one easily concludes that according to Mormons, Jesus is part of God, whatever words maybe used.

And yet I was taught the opposite growing up in Sunday School & Primary (in a Mormon church). That is odd.

Any of our LDS members want to get in on this? You can do a much better job of dealing with this than I can.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Joseph Smith said:
" I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!"

"......the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible...."

Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)


SERMON BY THE PROPHET—THE CHRISTIAN GODHEAD—PLURALITY OF GODS.

Meeting in the Grove, east of the Temple, June 16, 1844.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/smithpluralityofgodssermon.htm




"There are three separate persons in the Godhead: God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost. We believe in each of them (A of F 1:1). From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, without flesh and bone (D&C 130:22–23). These three persons are one in perfect unity and harmony of purpose and doctrine (John 17:21–23; 2 Ne. 31:21; 3 Ne. 11:27, 36)."
Ref:https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/god-godhead?lang=eng&letter=g


"Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost (A of F 1). These three Gods form the Godhead, which holds the keys of power over the universe. Each member of the Godhead is an independent personage, separate and distinct from the other two, the three being in perfect unity and harmony with each other (AF, chap. 2)."
Ref:http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Godhead


=======

From other camp:

"
Since the Trinity is one of those subjects that Mormons laugh at and mock, I take them to 2 Nephi 31:21 which reads:

“….And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.”

Then I ask them why they don’t believe in the Trinity since it is taught in the Book of Mormon, which Joseph Smith said is the most correct book on the face of the earth."
http://www.4witness.org/how-to-use-the-book-of-mormon-to-prove-the-trinity/



=== So one easily concludes that according to Mormons, Jesus is part of God, whatever words maybe used.
Here's my two cents worth, and believe it or not, I do know a thing or two about the Mormon understanding of the nature of God. The word "God" can be used to refer to any one of three personages who collectively make up the Godhead (the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost). In this respect, it's a title that all three individuals share. The word "God" can also be used as a collective noun (much like the word "team"). When it is used in this way, it is as a synonym for "Godhead." When the scriptures say there is just "one God," it means there is one "Godhead."

The Bible does, in fact, say that the Father and the Son are "one." But it does not say they are "one substance" or "one essence." The word "one" does not need to be referring to the numeral '1'. It can also mean "united," as in the following examples:

Exodus 24:3 says, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do."

2 Corinthians 13:11 says, "Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you."

Acts 4:32 states, "And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."

In each of these examples, the word "one" is used to describe a unity that has nothing to do with the numeral "1". Trinitarians continue to say that the Father and the Son are "one in substance," but when pressed for passages that confirm their belief, they are unable to. It is entirely possible and reasonable to believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate persons who are "one" in every respect except the physical.

I believe if you were to have asked Jesus' Apostles about the Trinity, they would have looked at you in complete bewilderment as the concept would have been completely foreign to them.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
......I believe if you were to have asked Jesus' Apostles about the Trinity, they would have looked at you in complete bewilderment as the concept would have been completely foreign to them.
Peace be on you.
i=Agree, and also
ii=would they not say, Jesus (on whom be peace) is / was [was: if talked about his migration to Kashmir: Book online = Jesus in India] a Messenger / Prophet of God and son of God in the sense as many other good people are called sons of God in Bible?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Peace be on you.
i=Agree, and also
ii=would they not say, Jesus (on whom be peace) is / was [was: if talked about his migration to Kashmir: Book online = Jesus in India] a Messenger / Prophet of God and son of God in the sense as many other good people are called sons of God in Bible?
Christians vary in how they interpret the phrase "Son of God." Many believe the relationship between the Father and the Son to be purely symbolic. Mormons believe them to have a literal Father-Son relationship. I am aware that other good people are called sons of God. Mormons believe we are all either the spirit sons or spirit daughters of God. This means that He was the father or creator of our spirits, or our life force. We believe Jesus Christ to have been unique in that the Bible refers to Him as God's "Only Begotten Son." To Mormons, that difference is significant.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Christians vary in how they interpret the phrase "Son of God." Many believe the relationship between the Father and the Son to be purely symbolic. Mormons believe them to have a literal Father-Son relationship. I am aware that other good people are called sons of God. Mormons believe we are all either the spirit sons or spirit daughters of God. This means that He was the father or creator of our spirits, or our life force. We believe Jesus Christ to have been unique in that the Bible refers to Him as God's "Only Begotten Son." To Mormons, that difference is significant.
Peace be on you.
Like other places about sons, why not take mataphoric meaning of begotten?......One is sure it is some transaltion error as the original languaged Bible does not exist. It is not in the language what Jesus (a.s.) spoke. Besides Jesus was in Moses' line of desposition, that makes Moses bigger-begotten-son....Like all chosen men Jesus (on whom be peace) was chosen man too.
Begotten brings the idea of a spouse too. All scenario becomes very strange.
There was no need of any sonship.
 
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