Is Peace on Earth Really God's Goal????

[Deeje]

God is not a being. He is an experience and from your mind. That is like saying your mind and thoughts existed before you were born.

Your god is in your mind and yet you say Christians are self centered? Does your god exist apart from you?

Your god and mine are two completely different concepts. I have a personal relationship with my God, whom I view as a real entity. I pray to him, ask him for advice with my decisions, ask his help for others in need or trouble...and he always answers me through scripture. To take no notice of the Bible, to me is ignoring God. That puts people in a precarious position IMV. Adam and Eve ignored God too...and where did it get them?

we have opposite views of tradition. I feel it's necessary. You don't. Nothing more to discuss

Jesus didn't see the need for those traditions that invalidated the word of his God and teacher. I don't either.

Nothing more to discuss......

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your god is in your mind and yet you say Christians are self centered? Does your god exist apart from you?

I didn't say Christians (the people) are self centered. I said their belief in god is from the mind (god is of the mind and experience.) We-as humanity/people-are self-centered (different from selfish) in that we see ourselves in the center of the universe. Same as one's belief in god. Christian god. Pagan god. Whatever god it is not universal. Any authority we attribute to god is a reflection of our ego. Nothing wrong with that if we control it and be humble rather than evangelical and defensive.

To answer your question, if I used the term god, no. God/Spirit is not separate from me. It is an experience. A lot of things that cannot be written in a book nor defined from a book. Our experiences aren't limited to what is written by others especially those that are not related to us.

Spirit is thoughts. Breathe. Experience.

It is not a being and it is not a creator. It is what makes us go. We made it a who. Nothing wrong with that. Just Christian are a bit more defensive about it, than say, Hindus are.

Your god and mine are two completely different concepts. I have a personal relationship with my God, whom I view as a real entity. I pray to him, ask him for advice with my decisions, ask his help for others in need or trouble...and he always answers me through scripture. To take no notice of the Bible, to me is ignoring God. That puts people in a precarious position IMV. Adam and Eve ignored God too...and where did it get them?

I have a personal relationship with Spirit. Spirit isn't defined by a book. No prophet religion. All communion with souls on both living and those in spirit.

It's actually nice not being dependant on any scripture of any religion. It frees me a whole lot where prayer, art, and communion becomes more of a central asset in my life. I don't prefer the word god, but yes, we have different concepts of "him." Nothing wrong with that.

Jesus didn't see the need for those traditions that invalidated the word of his God and teacher. I don't either.

There ya go. You don't have to call it traditions, but JW have practices they carried from the past and still practice to present and in the future. You have rituals you have every Saturday. You have service and other things. Just put more of a positive definition of the word traditions and it won't mirror the context and definition that is portrayed in the bible all because of a word.

 

[Deeje]

You don't have to call it traditions, but JW have practices they carried from the past and still practice to present and in the future. You have rituals you have every Saturday. You have service and other things. Just put more of a positive definition of the word traditions and it won't mirror the context and definition that is portrayed in the bible all because of a word.

What "traditions" do you think we have? What "practices" do we carry on that Jesus did not command? What are these 'Saturday rituals' we are supposed to observe? (Are you mixing us up with SDA's?)

Our "service" to God is done by way of using our time to carry the Bible's message to others before the foretold "end" comes....just as Jesus told us to but if you have no belief in the Bible, then its message won't mean anything to you. If there are only two paths that Jesus spoke about, we are all either on one or the other. We choose the path that suits us....just as all humans have done down through history, making a name and a record with God....or not. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What "traditions" do you think we have? What "practices" do we carry on that Jesus did not command? What are these 'Saturday rituals' we are supposed to observe? (Are you mixing us up with SDA's?)

Actually, I had two good JW friends, a lady and her husband, who used to visit me. My friend came and asked me about my faith. We talked mostly about hers though they did research what I believed a bit. Another JW that visited me at the bus stop asked me about my faith and talked to me about it. Actually, not one Catholic has asked me about my faith and I was intimately involved in the Church. I went to the Hall. They invited me to the one year convention though I never went. They moved, though.

At the Hall, when they read from the Watch Tower, to me, that's part of tradition. It's something that's been held in the past and brought down and still practiced today. Rituals just means something you do repeatedly. Every Saturday you do the same thing. Nothing wrong with that. Service is evangelizing to people about the words and discussing the bible even on RF. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't see it negatively. I also don't compare your service and a Catholics with that of scripture because what you guys practice does not reflect what jesus was trying to say in context. But you can take it literal. Regardless, you're not like Bahai who take everything out dogma, rituals, and all.

Even the bible is tradition.

Our "service" to God is done by way of using our time to carry the Bible's message to others before the foretold "end" comes....just as Jesus told us to but if you have no belief in the Bible, then its message won't mean anything to you. If there are only two paths that Jesus spoke about, we are all either on one or the other. We choose the path that suits us....just as all humans have done down through history, making a name and a record with God....or not. Time will tell I guess.

Yep. The only way we can live among each other without our own bias and self-centeredness is learn from each other. I'll never be christian and you'll never be a spiritualist. That's okay. Just I notice Spiritualist don't say other people are wrong. We say we are all connected. Christianity is different. That's really about it.

What I do like about JW is that you have more knowledge of scripture than most protestants I've met; and, I've met a lot. What I dislike is JW online. In person, I haven't had much opposition in our differing faiths. Maybe because online we have an illusion of thinking that what we read on screen completely represents a person. That's the nature of people who depend on a book for truth.

It is what it is.

 

[Bird123]

Religion is not based on proof (or more correctly, evidence) it is based on belief, generally unjustified belief.

And it is a fact that anyone who makes a claim has the burden of proof. The act of seeking knowledge carrys no such burden. Just how it is.

I am not dependent on you for anything. That is a dodge to prevent you from supporting your beliefs (whatever they may be) with evidence.

If you have no intent of explaining what you believe and why you believe it, then what is your purpose here? I'm fine with you believing whatever floats your boat, but if you have no interest in exploring your beliefs with others, what is the point in you posting about them?

You are driving in the desert and your car breaks down. You didn't expect to break down so you brought no water. You turn to me and say: What are we going to do now? I say I'm going to walk west about 2 miles. There is an oasis where there will be water. You look at me and say: Prove it. Burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. My reply is Burden of proof rests on the one who seeks the knowledge then I walk off to the west.

Sound familiar? Isn't your choice entirely up to you? I have pointed you to the water. It is all up to you. I have given you enough knowledge to Discover the water for yourself. Your knowledge should not depend on me going, getting the water then serving it up to you. Discovery takes work. It has always been up to you not any religion, me, or beliefs. Question remains: Just how thirsty are you????

 

[Bird123]

I find if we live by applying the Golden Rule we can avoid many bad choices.
In other words, we do Not have to simply learn by ' trial and error '.
We can learn Jesus' way, Jesus' choices, and can choose his way or not to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he did according to John 13:34-35.

I don't know why ' everyone ' thinks they need to be saved, but I do know why Jesus' followers need to be saved.
We need to be saved ( rescued/delivered ) from enemy death. Because we can Not resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can ' resurrect ' us from enemy death. According to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will.

As for our day, or time frame, we are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37.
That means we who are alive at that time, can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.

We are Spiritual beings in our true nature. This physical body is no more than our transportation in this world. I have direct experience to this.

As I see it, the rest you speak of is no more than stories. I can not rely on stories. I go for what actually is.

 

[Deeje]

At the Hall, when they read from the Watch Tower, to me, that's part of tradition. It's something that's been held in the past and brought down and still practiced today. Rituals just means something you do repeatedly. Every Saturday you do the same thing.

The Watchtower magazine is a Bible study aid. Many congregations meet on a Sunday, though some meet on a Saturday or in the evening. It depends on how many congregations share a Kingdom Hall. We have a discussion of a particular topic and analyze it scripturally in one article or in several successive articles over a few weeks. It isn't ritual, it is a method of study. We have no rituals apart from meeting for the celebration of the Lord's Supper each year as Jesus commanded. Like the Jews who were commanded to celebrate the Passover, we commemorate an even more important event in history....the death of Jesus Christ....the real sacrifice of the Passover Lamb. Empty rituals are mere performances that have no bearing on today's Christianity. Meaningful observance of this one anniversary is what the Bible encourages.

We also train for the ministry since all of Jehovah's Witnesses are preachers of "the good news of God's Kingdom". Before he sent his disciples out to preach, Jesus trained them and showed them how he wanted it done. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:11-15; Luke 10:1-3)

What I do like about JW is that you have more knowledge of scripture than most protestants I've met; and, I've met a lot. What I dislike is JW online. In person, I haven't had much opposition in our differing faiths. Maybe because online we have an illusion of thinking that what we read on screen completely represents a person. That's the nature of people who depend on a book for truth.

It is what it is.

The reason why JW's know their Bible is because Bible study is the main part of our meeting together. It isn't just cold facts and dry Bible reading. There is background information about the characters and places mentioned in the Biblical accounts.It shows how one story leads to another and how the Bible accounts all tie in together to tell one story. I never get sick of learning.

You may be right about the difference in witnessing face to face and online. Unless one is especially gifted at conveying their personality through the written word, it can be difficult to really know someone just by what they write. Body language and tone of voice convey so much more in person. Cultural differences also get in the way sometimes. Face to face is definitely better and that is why we are predominantly known for our door to door work. (Acts 5:42; 20:20)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Watchtower magazine is a Bible study aid. Many congregations meet on a Sunday, though some meet on a Saturday or in the evening. It depends on how many congregations share a Kingdom Hall. We have a discussion of a particular topic and analyze it scripturally in one article or in several successive articles over a few weeks. It isn't ritual, it is a method of study. We have no rituals apart from meeting for the celebration of the Lord's Supper each year as Jesus commanded. Like the Jews who were commanded to celebrate the Passover, we commemorate an even more important event in history....the death of Jesus Christ....the real sacrifice of the Passover Lamb. Empty rituals are mere performances that have no bearing on today's Christianity. Meaningful observance of this one anniversary is what the Bible encourages.

We also train for the ministry since all of Jehovah's Witnesses are preachers of "the good news of God's Kingdom". Before he sent his disciples out to preach, Jesus trained them and showed them how he wanted it done. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:11-15; Luke 10:1-3)



The reason why JW's know their Bible is because Bible study is the main part of our meeting together. It isn't just cold facts and dry Bible reading. There is background information about the characters and places mentioned in the Biblical accounts.It shows how one story leads to another and how the Bible accounts all tie in together to tell one story. I never get sick of learning.

You may be right about the difference in witnessing face to face and online. Unless one is especially gifted at conveying their personality through the written word, it can be difficult to really know someone just by what they write. Body language and tone of voice convey so much more in person. Cultural differences also get in the way sometimes. Face to face is definitely better and that is why we are predominantly known for our door to door work. (Acts 5:42; 20:20)

I like all you said. I know when I went to the Hall, Baptist Churches, Pentecostal, Prespytarian, and, of course, Catholic I havent experienced empty rituals. What I didnt like is the bias each church have of each other. JW included. Its very unattractive and very contradicting of patience and understanding if each church want bring one to christ (and christ only).

Were you raised Catholic or been to a Catholic Mass? Baptist sermon? Those are thr only two I know well.

I mean, not superficially or looking for paganism or if indoctrinated not basing the present church on personal experiences.

I mean with an open mind really looked at he meanings and context of each ritual done at Mass or sermon.

You dont have to agree with the ritual. I dont see the spiritual outlook of basing a persons spiritual faith on what you call paganism. Youd really have to know the person. But in general, with an open mind can you find relations to the non empty rituals and the bible?

I mean, of course catholicism and jw are two different churches and they are both christian. They both follow the words of christ. But Im sure Im not the only one that can see the truth of these churches without believing in them myself.

Right?

 

[Murad]

How about this? Forget everything you know about religion and God. Look at the universe around you. Figure out why the way it's being done is the Best way. The human factor will have many more variables. Put the pieces together with an open mind and see what you Discover. Is there Method to the madness???

Hanging onto terms like supernatural draw your view from what actually is. If I were to fly an airplane 2000 years ago, I would be supernatural to many.

My Best advice is to Be Who you Must. As I see it. It is a part of the Plan.

I find very few who really want to Discover God. It really doesn't matter. I think it is only important to make our own choices. As I see it. Life's lessons are best learned that way.

How It doesn't matter ?
If there's god, thats mean there's purpose for your life? you have look for.

" did ye then think that we had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for acount)?"

 

[Murad]

And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.
Except whom your Lord has given mercy, and for that He created them. But the word of your Lord is to be fulfilled that, "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and men all together.

 

[Bird123]

How It doesn't matter ?
If there's god, thats mean there's purpose for your life? you have look for.

" did ye then think that we had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for acount)?"

Eternity has Purpose.

As I see it, God is not Mankind. A Better Way stares you in the face.

 

[eldios]

It seems most people I know pray for World Peace. They tell me that is what God wants. I don't see it.



As I see it, life is the education of God's children. So often that takes adversity, challenges, and interaction to advance the lessons. The resolution of conflict always brings education of some sort.



Having peace and having it made seems to be a default desire of most people. On the other hand, as I see it, God's goal is the education of God's children. Peace will only arrive after all the lessons are learned.

What do you think??

Here's what God had some of his prophets write down for him.

Ezekiel 7:25
When terror comes, they will seek peace in vain.

Ezekiel 13:
10 "'Because they lead my people astray, saying, "Peace," when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,

Ezekiel 13
16: those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign LORD."'

Isaiah 59
8: The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths. They have turned them into crooked roads; no one who walks along them will know peace.

Jeremiah 6:14
They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. 'Peace, peace,' they say, when there is no peace.

 

[Murad]

Eternity has Purpose.

As I see it, God is not Mankind. A Better Way stares you in the face.

The Lord, There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).

 

[Milton Platt]

You are driving in the desert and your car breaks down. You didn't expect to break down so you brought no water. You turn to me and say: What are we going to do now? I say I'm going to walk west about 2 miles. There is an oasis where there will be water. You look at me and say: Prove it. Burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. My reply is Burden of proof rests on the one who seeks the knowledge then I walk off to the west.

Sound familiar? Isn't your choice entirely up to you? I have pointed you to the water. It is all up to you. I have given you enough knowledge to Discover the water for yourself. Your knowledge should not depend on me going, getting the water then serving it up to you. Discovery takes work. It has always been up to you not any religion, me, or beliefs. Question remains: Just how thirsty are you????

Actually, I wouldn't say that. I know oases exist, and apparently you know where one is. This is not the equivalent to a god claim. If you told me that if we walked two miles that direction we would find an invisble being that would make an oasis magically appear, I would assume you had been driven mad by the sun. All claims are not equal and require differing amounts and kinds of evidence.

And despite what you wish to believe, burden of proof rests on the one making the claim. It's the internet age....look it up.

In your scenario, I made no claim, I merely doubted yours.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We are Spiritual beings in our true nature. This physical body is no more than our transportation in this world. I have direct experience to this.
As I see it, the rest you speak of is no more than stories. I can not rely on stories. I go for what actually is.

I find what actually is: Is the fitting description about how people would have a selfish distorted form of love as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and 2 Timothy 3:13. Those selfish people can read 2nd Timothy but Not make sense out of those verses which are in sharp contrast to the definition of love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
These last days of badness on Earth ' is a line of evidence ' showing us the final result of such critical times.
Those selfish people are showing us the end result of the failure of such people in failing to respond to the teachings of Christ such as having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus displayed as mentioned at John 13:34-35.

Also, what actually is: Is the international global proclaiming of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 is now in its 'final phase' because that good news about God's kingdom government has saturated the Earth as a witness to earth's nations because as 2 Timothy 2:9 mentions that Scripture can Not be bound. No one can stop it from being spread.

I can agree that we could be ' Spiritual people ' in our true nature, after all Jesus was a ' Spiritual person' in his true nature. Thus, to me using Jesus as a role model or example is that we too can be Spiritual persons.

Unlike Adam, I find Jesus had a pre-human spirit body, so when God resurrected the dead Jesus, then Jesus once again had his heavenly spirit body back once again.
I find in Scripture that Adam never had a spirit body, Adam was never offered a spirit body, Adam was offered healthy physical everlasting life on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law. In other words, Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life. A person can Not return to a place he never was before. Adam went back returning to non-existence. As a vehicle driver might purposely misdirect his vehicle, Adam misdirected his mind and body to break the Law which carried with it the death penalty of going back to dust according to Genesis 3:19. Jesus came to undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon mankind, so that the majority of mankind can become part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth as Jesus promised.

 

[Bird123]

Actually, I wouldn't say that. I know oases exist, and apparently you know where one is. This is not the equivalent to a god claim. If you told me that if we walked two miles that direction we would find an invisble being that would make an oasis magically appear, I would assume you had been driven mad by the sun. All claims are not equal and require differing amounts and kinds of evidence.

And despite what you wish to believe, burden of proof rests on the one making the claim. It's the internet age....look it up.

In your scenario, I made no claim, I merely doubted yours.

In my claim, my goal was not to get you to Believe. I was merely placing truth in the world for those who might be ready to discover it for themselves. If you are judging truth on how easy that truth is to believe, such as with the oasis, you will be walking away from much truth in your life and not all about God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Here's what God had some of his prophets write down for him.
Ezekiel 7:25
When terror comes, they will seek peace in vain.
Ezekiel 13:
10 "'Because they lead my people astray, saying, "Peace," when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,
Ezekiel 13
16: those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign LORD."'
Isaiah 59
8: The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths. They have turned them into crooked roads; no one who walks along them will know peace.
Jeremiah 6:14
They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. 'Peace, peace,' they say, when there is no peace.

I find that Jeremiah 6:14; 8:11 is compatible with what lies ahead of us as written at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (the powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Safety " or " Peace and Security " as the ' final signal ', so to speak, as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.

 

[Bird123]

I find what actually is: Is the fitting description about how people would have a selfish distorted form of love as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and 2 Timothy 3:13. Those selfish people can read 2nd Timothy but Not make sense out of those verses which are in sharp contrast to the definition of love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
These last days of badness on Earth ' is a line of evidence ' showing us the final result of such critical times.
Those selfish people are showing us the end result of the failure of such people in failing to respond to the teachings of Christ such as having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus displayed as mentioned at John 13:34-35.

Also, what actually is: Is the international global proclaiming of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 is now in its 'final phase' because that good news about God's kingdom government has saturated the Earth as a witness to earth's nations because as 2 Timothy 2:9 mentions that Scripture can Not be bound. No one can stop it from being spread.

I can agree that we could be ' Spiritual people ' in our true nature, after all Jesus was a ' Spiritual person' in his true nature. Thus, to me using Jesus as a role model or example is that we too can be Spiritual persons.

Unlike Adam, I find Jesus had a pre-human spirit body, so when God resurrected the dead Jesus, then Jesus once again had his heavenly spirit body back once again.
I find in Scripture that Adam never had a spirit body, Adam was never offered a spirit body, Adam was offered healthy physical everlasting life on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law. In other words, Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life. A person can Not return to a place he never was before. Adam went back returning to non-existence. As a vehicle driver might purposely misdirect his vehicle, Adam misdirected his mind and body to break the Law which carried with it the death penalty of going back to dust according to Genesis 3:19. Jesus came to undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon mankind, so that the majority of mankind can become part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth as Jesus promised.

As I see it Adam and Satan never existed. They are simple stories you might tell your children. That is not reality. You might not Understand my next statement. God has no laws. In God's system, there are no need for them. Mankind makes laws in an attempt to control others. That is not God.

 

[Milton Platt]

In my claim, my goal was not to get you to Believe. I was merely placing truth in the world for those who might be ready to discover it for themselves. If you are judging truth on how easy that truth is to believe, such as with the oasis, you will be walking away from much truth in your life and not all about God.

What truth? Lay out your claims about what is true and if it stands up to scrutiny, then great. But don't just assert you have some kind of truths and then ask people to take your word, or go figure it out on their own. Make your case and support it with at least a modicum of verifiable, testable evidence. That is reasonable.

As has been said, a claim without evidence can be rejected without evidence.

 

[Searching1981]

It seems most people I know pray for World Peace. They tell me that is what God wants. I don't see it.



As I see it, life is the education of God's children. So often that takes adversity, challenges, and interaction to advance the lessons. The resolution of conflict always brings education of some sort.



Having peace and having it made seems to be a default desire of most people. On the other hand, as I see it, God's goal is the education of God's children. Peace will only arrive after all the lessons are learned.

What do you think??

I don't believe in Michael Newton and his Journey of Souls. If life is irrational with inequality and the people in it , remember the people in it not God, creating suffering because of their bum bodies it's not to learn anything it's because it's irrational.

Questions you have to ask yourself are: what God would teach anything through rape and murder? If you rationalize only reincarnated Rapists and Murders get that justice in life then it really is pissing on the victim. The reality is these people, along with many people on Earth, are Monsters. We are meant to escape this place not solve it. Why solve a clod of dirt when Heaven awaits?