Is premarital sex really a sin?

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
The Scriptures have not condoned other than male and female as partners.
Mestemia, the Scriptures are what is debated and the Scriptures are the "legality" of what the Scriptures claim---not man's courts.



The Scriptures are not in conflict with the GOD'S best interest for mankind. That is produced by mankind's false opinions/conclusions of the Principles of GOD---whether by courts or so-called scholars.
Jesus denounced man's man-made "commandments and man's false traditions."

Sometimes they are! For example, the ones that advocate for slavery.

 

[sincerly]

Sometimes they are! For example, the ones that advocate for slavery.

Scripture references, please?

 

[sojourner]

Scripture references, please?

Do your own homework -- you know where they are.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Scripture references, please?

Do your own homework -- you know where they are.

You ,also, know the context of those verses.

 

[McBell]

Mestemia, What is bad is that mankind has seen and incorporated those Scriptural laws into their secular laws---but refuse to acknowledge the fact.

Some, not all.
Unless you are to claim that we are to stone adulterers?

 

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Scripture references, please?



You ,also, know the context of those verses.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Mestemia, What is bad is that mankind has seen and incorporated those Scriptural laws into their secular laws---but refuse to acknowledge the fact.

Some, not all.
Unless you are to claim that we are to stone adulterers?

Let's see. First, there was a Theocracy which mankind rejected for a monarchy and in the USA traded for a democracy.---Today, our leaders do not know how to "contain" themselves. Even so, that doesn't void the Scriptural admonition.

 

[McBell]

Let's see. First, there was a Theocracy which mankind rejected for a monarchy and in the USA traded for a democracy.---Today, our leaders do not know how to "contain" themselves. Even so, that doesn't void the Scriptural admonition.

Your scripture has no admonition over me.
Nor over billions of other people the world over.
Your thinking it does is a big part of the problem in the world today.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Let's see. First, there was a Theocracy which mankind rejected for a monarchy and in the USA traded for a democracy.---Today, our leaders do not know how to "contain" themselves. Even so, that doesn't void the Scriptural admonition.

Your scripture has no admonition over me.
Nor over billions of other people the world over.
Your thinking it does is a big part of the problem in the world today.

Hi, Mestemia, The Scriptures were established thousands of years prior to my birth. They are the recorded messages from the Creator GOD who you deny.
Your are free to believe or disbelieve just as those were who saw and heard them given.

My "thinking" can not be a "problem" for one who disbelieves, because in their belief the messages are "myths". I do not present any danger/harm to you or any of the world. There is a group who has declared death to all non-believers---but they have a whole different set of "scriptures".

 

[McBell]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Let's see. First, there was a Theocracy which mankind rejected for a monarchy and in the USA traded for a democracy.---Today, our leaders do not know how to "contain" themselves. Even so, that doesn't void the Scriptural admonition.



Hi, Mestemia, The Scriptures were established thousands of years prior to my birth. They are the recorded messages from the Creator GOD who you deny.
Your are free to believe or disbelieve just as those were who saw and heard them given.

My "thinking" can not be a "problem" for one who disbelieves, because in their belief the messages are "myths". I do not present any danger/harm to you or any of the world. There is a group who has declared death to all non-believers---but they have a whole different set of "scriptures".

Your "thinking" is a problem when you attempt to push your beliefs onto others.

The rest is merely wishful thinking on your part.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Hi, Mestemia, The Scriptures were established thousands of years prior to my birth. They are the recorded messages from the Creator GOD who you deny.
Your are free to believe or disbelieve just as those were who saw and heard them given.

My "thinking" can not be a "problem" for one who disbelieves, because in their belief the messages are "myths". I do not present any danger/harm to you or any of the world. There is a group who has declared death to all non-believers---but they have a whole different set of "scriptures".

Your "thinking" is a problem when you attempt to push your beliefs onto others.

The rest is merely wishful thinking on your part.

Mesthemia, Let's see! "I'm pushing" when I present what the Scriptures have to say on a debate forum, BUT you and others, are NOT PUSHING when telling a contradictory message.

Whether or not it is "wishful thinking" is still a future event. As the saying goes, "The fat lady hasn't begun to sing". "The Book hasn't been closed."

Right! I believe there is something beyond that pile of dust--we both will end up as--if time should last so long.

 

[McBell]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Hi, Mestemia, The Scriptures were established thousands of years prior to my birth. They are the recorded messages from the Creator GOD who you deny.
Your are free to believe or disbelieve just as those were who saw and heard them given.

My "thinking" can not be a "problem" for one who disbelieves, because in their belief the messages are "myths". I do not present any danger/harm to you or any of the world. There is a group who has declared death to all non-believers---but they have a whole different set of "scriptures".



Mesthemia, Let's see! "I'm pushing" when I present what the Scriptures have to say on a debate forum, BUT you and others, are NOT PUSHING when telling a contradictory message.

Whether or not it is "wishful thinking" is still a future event. As the saying goes, "The fat lady hasn't begun to sing". "The Book hasn't been closed."

Right! I believe there is something beyond that pile of dust--we both will end up as--if time should last so long.

My apologies.
I had assumed you would understand my use of the word "you" in that context meant "theists who are pushing their beliefs onto others" such as in the law..

Thank you for pointing that out...

Do you not find it interesting that we are STILL discussing your beliefs?
Were you hoping I would not notice or is it that you did not notice?

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post Mesthemia, Let's see! "I'm pushing" when I present what the Scriptures have to say on a debate forum, BUT you and others, are NOT PUSHING when telling a contradictory message.

Whether or not it is "wishful thinking" is still a future event. As the saying goes, "The fat lady hasn't begun to sing". "The Book hasn't been closed."

Right! I believe there is something beyond that pile of dust--we both will end up as--if time should last so long.

My apologies.
I had assumed you would understand my use of the word "you" in that context meant "theists who are pushing their beliefs onto others" such as in the law..

Thank you for pointing that out...

Do you not find it interesting that we are STILL discussing your beliefs?
Were you hoping I would not notice or is it that you did not notice?

Mestemia, What the Biblical Scriptures say is my belief, but all posted contradictions are YOUR/Others "beliefs".

 

[McBell]

Mestemia, What the Biblical Scriptures say is my belief, but all posted contradictions are YOUR/Others "beliefs".

You appear to have me confused with another member

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

The issue comes down to an issue of authority.

Does the individual decide what is right or wrong, or does God?

God has said in his word that premarital sex is wrong, Jesus said if you look on a woman to lust after her in your heart, you have committed adultery already in your heart.

The problem is that God created men and woman to marry and to be in a permanent relationship so that they could raise godly children, premarital sex is wicked mainly because it is rebellion against what God says is right or wrong, but some other reasons would be that it contradicts the family structure that God has ordained, Also kids growing up without both a mom and dad in the same home has devastating consequences on the kids, I know because I am one of them, and it took the grace of God to change my life and get me heading in the right direction. God has ordained that sex be something reserved for marriage.

But really the issue comes down to who is your final authority, you and your feelings, sexual impulses, and desires, or God.

That is the basic problem every human being must face, it is the reason why people embrace atheism and why they reject God, because people do not want to submit to the authority of God, we are all rebels, we have all rejected God, Romans 3:23 for all have sinned... We have all lied, cheated, stolen, hated someone, had lust in our heart, and done wicked ungodly things that we knew were wrong when we did them, yet man loves his sin so much that he tries to find intellectual arguments and reasons to ease his conscience and make himself feel better. One day all will stand before God and all will be guilty of sin, your only hope is that you repent of your sins and turn to Jesus Christ, he died on the cross for the penalty of your sin. Romans 10:13- for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

My suggestion for all reading this is, do not seek for ways to justify your sin, go to God and admit that the sin you love is wicked, and confess your sinfulness to Christ, and ask him to save you, and he will cleanse you of your sins and change your life. That is what happened to me, I was a drug addict and a fornicator and I always was seeking ways to justify my sin, but we all know deep down inside that we are wrong. You know the truth, For those who have ears to hear, Hear me, God is warning you, Repent from your sins and turn to Christ now while you still can, What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and yet lose his own soul? Why do ye labor for that which satisfies not? Jesus told a woman at the well, whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I give shall never thirst. How has the waters of sin satisfied you? it always leaves you thirsty, there is living water. I'm sure many will mock at this message, but God is speaking to someone, you know if he's speaking to you, listen to his voice.

 

[Muffled]

Actually, I do not find this to be very clear either. Words can be quite misleading. I personally have had desires, but I have never felt any sort of burning sensation associated with my desires. When I think of that which burns, I think of the process of combustion. Do desires cause combustion? What is the meaning then of burning with desire? Are these verses actually talking about burning in hell as a punishment for having a desire for sex? Is it talking about people who masturbate to satisfy their sexual desires? I just don't think it's all that clear.

I believe our bodies burn all the time. We combust material to produce body heat. Thus we get the expression hot under the collar because the body burns hotter when it is going through emotions of anger. The body also intensifies its processes during sexual arousal.

I believe as well os the changes in body the emotions intensify as well and teh mind may become more focused. So I am thinking that burning could be interpreted as an intensification of bodily functions.

I do not believe so because Hell isn't mentioned.

I do not believe that it is. I believe it is addressing the fact that a man wants a sexual relationship with a woman.

 

[Muffled]

The only way your fire analogy will work is to first show your deity exists as fire exists.

Now since we both know that that is not going to happen...

All we have is someone claiming their deity declares something a sin and that this alleged sin applies to all people.

Now since I do not subscribe to the alleged deity in question, I am not bound by the rules and punishments of said deity.

I do understand that there are loads of people who find said concept hard to grasp. Even though they themselves will declare they are not bound by the rules and regulations of a deity other than the one they subscribe to.

I believe since I speak therfore I am because speaking requires thinking.

They have spkoken my words and written them down. Just ask me and I will tell you whether it applies or not.

I beleive that the consequences of sin remain the same whether one believes it or not just as a person who puts his hand in the fire gets burned whether he believes it is a bad thing to do or not. There is no such thing as refusing punishment. Try telling a judge that you are not bound by his decisions, lol.

 

[Muffled]

Well yes, I suppose I have. Clearly, though some may not agree, Respiration is a combustion reaction. I suppose that desire could indeed cause an individual to increase his/her rate of oxygen consumption, thereby increasing the rate of combustion taking place in his body, thereby increasing the heat output from the combustion reactions taking place in his body. So, do you think that this is what this verse is describing? Do you believe that the author knew about combustion reactions taking place in the human body?

Actually I beleive the author is just referring to the compulsive nature of the sex drive.

 

[McBell]

I believe since I speak therfore I am because speaking requires thinking.

They have spkoken my words and written them down. Just ask me and I will tell you whether it applies or not.

I beleive that the consequences of sin remain the same whether one believes it or not just as a person who puts his hand in the fire gets burned whether he believes it is a bad thing to do or not. There is no such thing as refusing punishment. Try telling a judge that you are not bound by his decisions, lol.

You seem to be missing the point.
I know the fire exists.
I know consequences exist.
I know the judge exists.

Bold empty threats from an imaginary being do not impress.

 

[sincerly]

You seem to be missing the point.
I know the fire exists.
I know consequences exist.
I know the judge exists.

Bold empty threats from an imaginary being do not impress.

Hi Mestemia, "imaginary"? What I see is real. What I see could not have spontaneously appeared from nothing. What I see came about for a purpose---not from chance nor out of chaos.
Therefore, what I see does "impress" the consequences which you acknowledge as existing are, also, real.