Is premarital sex really a sin?

[Mister_T]

Ok, good.
Hmm. So, the bible (varying versions I assume) does lay out what is considered fornication but if you follow the NIV translation you're exempt from committing sin if you engage in premarital sex?

I'd like to see someone point out where fornication is defined in any version. All I'm saying is that the word does not appear in the NIV, which was composed of scholars from all around the world, and not just King James' scholars. I don't believe any version describes what constitutes fornication, despite having the word present.

And I'm not sure where I said someone is exempt from committing sin based on what version you read. I believe that premarital sex being a sin is common among mainstream Christianity doctrine, regardless of what Bible they're using for sermons and also regardless if it's present in their scriptures or not.

 

[Buttercup]

Because God made the rules for everyone... not just those who accept the rules.

I suppose if you want to trust that every man who had a hand in writing the bible (or the BOM) with no influence from his own mind and got everything correct, then believe how you will. Personally, I don't believe any human could know the thoughts of God. And, I'll never understand why I should believe what someone else (other than God himself) has to say on the matter.

Why should I believe what men over 2,000 years ago had to say about God?

 

[Buttercup]

I'd like to see someone point out where fornication is defined in any version. Fornication doesn't need to be defined because it's assumed one knows what it means, just like the definition of adultery.

All I'm saying is that the word does not appear in the NIV, which was composed of scholars from all around the world, and not just King James' scholars. I don't believe any version describes what constitutes fornication, despite having the word present.

I don't think the word is defined because it's assumed one knows what it means. The word 'murder' isn't defined either....but, we all know what it means.

And I'm not sure where I said someone is exempt from committing sin based on what version you read.

You didn't say it....I was asking the question.

I believe that premarital sex being a sin is common among mainstream Christianity doctrine, regardless of what Bible they're using for sermons and also regardless if it's present in their scriptures or not.

Well, how do they come to that conclusion?

What do you think Paul meant when he says this in 1 Corinthians 7?

"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."

or:

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

What are those passages describing if not pre-marital sex?

 

[Comprehend]

I suppose if you want to trust that every man who had a hand in writing the bible (or the BOM) with no influence from his own mind and got everything correct, then believe how you will.

I believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, I also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Personally, I don't believe any human could know the thoughts of God.

Not without God telling the human...

And, I'll never understand why I should believe what someone else (other than God himself) has to say on the matter.

You don't have to, God will tell you too if you like.

Why should I believe what men over 2,000 years ago had to say about God?

They weren't saying things "about" God, they were saying things "from" God, and if you don't like what the prophets from 2,000 years ago said, you could always listen to what the prophets are saying today.

 

[Comprehend]

I don't think the word is defined because it's assumed one knows what it means. The word 'murder' isn't defined either....but, we all know what it means.

Sweet!

We all get to rationalize murder now?

woo hoo!

*gets out list*

 

[Buttercup]

You don't have to, God will tell you too if you like.

Oh sure, promises, promises.

I was a Christian for a long time and I finally came to the realization that God is not found in a book. If there is a God it's obvious he doesn't want us to know a whole lot about him hence his tendency to be silent. But, that's ok. The God I envision is all the good things of the universe and none of the bad, especially the preponderance of men who try to define Him and stuff Him into a neat little box with no air holes. He is so much bigger than that and infinitely loving.

They weren't saying things "about" God, they were saying things "from" God, and if you don't like what the prophets from 2,000 years ago said, you could always listen to what the prophets are saying today.

How about I include myself on the list of prophets? Certainly I'm just as qualified to express what God 'thinks'.

 

[Mister_T]

I don't think the word is defined because it's assumed one knows what it means. The word 'murder' isn't defined either....but, we all know what it means.

I don't recall murder being ommited or translated differently in other versions from any versions, either.

What do you think Paul meant when he says this in 1 Corinthians 7?

"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."

I think it means you should be monogamous and not mess around with hookers or married people, like it says in Proverbs and 1 Corinthians. I'm not seeing where it says you'll burn in hell if you have sex before the marriage ritual or better yet, monogamous sex.

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

Find a monogamous partner which equals getting married. There was no dating in those days, people just arranged to get married when two people fell in love (and sometimes, love had nothing to do with marriage.) Again, where does it say you'll burn in hell by having monogamous sex?

What are those passages describing if not pre-marital sex?

Where is sex before marriage clearly outlined? The Bible tells us, don't have sex with prostitutes, don't sleep with married persons and don't cheat on your spouse in a clear fashion. Where's is "don't have monogamous sex" or "don't have sex before your marriage ritual" at in the Bible?

 

[Buttercup]

I think it means you should be monogamous and not mess around with hookers or married people, like it says in Proverbs and 1 Corinthians. I'm not seeing where it says you'll burn in hell

So, having sex with hookers is out of the question but having sex with a single person is ok? How do you come to that conclusion from this?

"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."

So, to you immorality is having sex with prostitutes?

Also, the question asked was if premarital sex is sin....the notion of burning in hell hasn't been brought up has it?

Find a monogamous partner which equals getting married. There was no dating in those days, people just arranged to get married when two people fell in love (and sometimes, love had nothing to do with marriage.) Again, where does it say you'll burn in hell by having monogamous sex?

Who's bringing up burning in hell?

Where is sex before marriage clearly outlined? The Bible tells us, don't have sex with prostitutes, don't sleep with married persons and don't cheat on your spouse in a clear fashion. Where's is "don't have monogamous sex" or "don't have sex before your marriage ritual" at in the Bible?

Where does the bible define having sex with prostitutes is the ONLY definition of sexual immorality?

Don't you recall how many times in the OT women were stoned to death because they weren't virgins?

 

[Comprehend]

Oh sure, promises, promises.

I was a Christian for a long time and I finally came to the realization that God is not found in a book. If there is a God it's obvious he doesn't want us to know a whole lot about him hence his tendency to be silent. But, that's ok. The God I envision is all the good things of the universe and none of the bad, especially the preponderance of men who try to define Him and stuff Him into a neat little box with no air holes. He is so much bigger than that and infinitely loving.

Yes, I remember we have talked about this before, so I won't bore you with my side of it again.

How about I include myself on the list of prophets? Certainly I'm just as qualified to express what God 'thinks'.

actually, God picks.

 

[Buttercup]

actually, God picks.

Hmm. And does he only pick Mormons?

 

[Comprehend]

Hmm. And does he only pick Mormons?

Nope, he used to pick Jews.

Edit: God is organized though, it wouldn't make much sense for him to establish a church and then not use it...

 

[Buttercup]

Nope, he used to pick Jews.

I meant NOW, silly.

 

[Comprehend]

Hmm. And does he only pick Mormons?

He only picks men too...

 

[Comprehend]

I meant NOW, silly.

yes, he only picks mormons, because that is the church he established in the last days. It wouldn't make much sense for God to come set up a church and then not use it... yes?

 

[Smoke]

God is organized though, it wouldn't make much sense for him to establish a church and then not use it...

He established one before and didn't use it, apparently. Hence the Great Apostasy.

 

[Buttercup]

yes, he only picks mormons, because that is the church he established in the last days. It wouldn't make much sense for God to come set up a church and then not use it... yes?

We're getting too far off topic. And, by me declaring that fact eliminates the need for me to answer your question. Phew!

 

[Comprehend]

He established one before and didn't use it, apparently. Hence the Great Apostasy.

They didn't listen.

A conversation takes two sides.

 

[Comprehend]

We're getting too far off topic. And, by me declaring that fact eliminates the need for me to answer your question. Phew!

you are right. sorry.

Back onto topic:

Premarital sex is a sin... who doesn't know this?

 

[Mister_T]

So, having sex with hookers is out of the question but having sex with a single person is ok? How do you come to that conclusion from this?

That passage from 1 Corinthians where the subject of sexual immorality is discussed by Paul.

So, to you immorality is having sex with prostitutes?

I personally, wouldn't have sex with a prostitute. But I don't know if I would necessarly call it immoral.

Also, the question asked was if premarital sex is sin....the notion of burning in hell hasn't been brought up has it?

Who's bringing up burning in hell?

Where exactly do those who live in sin go, according to conservative Christians? Milwaukee?

Where does the bible define having sex with prostitutes is the ONLY definition of sexual immorality?

I didn't say it was the only definition, for one. As I stated earlier, Paul discussed sexual immorality in detail, in 1 Corinthians. Adultery is discussed in detail, in Proverbs. Premartial sex is not mentioned in either.

Don't you recall how many times in the OT women were stoned to death because they weren't virgins?

I do. And I also recall those women who were stoned, didn't lose their virginity to their husbands that they were promised to, which would constitute cheating.

 

[Buttercup]

That passage from 1 Corinthians where the subject of sexual immorality is discussed by Paul.

But, as you'll notice, Paul also admonishes women to abstain from sexual immorality in that sentence as well. I'm sure women didn't visit hookers.

I didn't say it was the only definition, for one. As I stated earlier, Paul discussed sexual immorality in detail, in 1 Corinthians. Adultery is discussed in detail, in Proverbs. Premartial sex is not mentioned in either.

I suppose if you want the NIV to be the first and last source for your bible reading (the word fornication isn't listed) and you want to keep premarital sex out of the definition of 'sexual immorality' then, what else can I say? It's just going to continue to boil down to interpretation.

It's my guess you won't find too many Christian preachers who will be real excited about condoning premarital sex however.