Is premarital sex really a sin?

[Sonofason]

Got it. No penile-vaginal penetration of men. Not ambiguious at all.

And if you do that's what? An abomination right?

What are some other abominations mentioned in the bible that we might judge the sin? Wearing clothing of two different materials as I recall. That was an abomination. Oh my. You are doing that right now, aren't you?

I personally only wear 100% cotton. I never use mixed fabrics in the same garment.

 

[JerryL]

I personally only wear 100% cotton. I never use mixed fabrics in the same garment.

Shoes?

Socks with no elastic?

 

[Sonofason]

Shoes?

Socks with no elastic?

the verse speaks of garments. If you can categorize a shoe as a garment, go right ahead. I don't.

 

[Sonofason]

Shoes?

Socks with no elastic?

And by the way, I pay for using shoes and socks of mixed fabric. They don't hold up. And that is the reason for the command. It is foolishness to wear fabrics with mixed fabrics for a reason. It is not a purposeless command.

 

[Sonofason]

Also the Bible does not condemn or call a man who wears garments of mixed fabrics condemned or abominations. It is simply a command. Actually, it's not even that. It's a statute. It's a decree.

 

[JerryL]

the verse speaks of garments. If you can categorize a shoe as a garment, go right ahead. I don't.

What you (or I) do is not really relevant. The question would be what the writers did. Do you have some reason to believe shoes were excluded?

And by the way, I pay for using shoes and socks of mixed fabric. They don't hold up. And that is the reason for the command. It is foolishness to wear fabrics with mixed fabrics for a reason. It is not a purposeless command.

I'm sure astronauts would disagree. As would firefighters and anyone whose life depended on their clothing (bulletproof vests, steel toes shoes, heat resistant anything).

But if you think cotton is more durable than ripstop nylon... well: go tell the army. They are all confused.

Also the Bible does not condemn or call a man who wears garments of mixed fabrics condemned or abominations. It is simply a command. Actually, it's not even that. It's a statute. It's a decree.

Some abominations:

• Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
• Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
• Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
• Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
• Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
• Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
• A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
• A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
• A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
• Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
• A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
• Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
• A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
• A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
• Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
• A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
• Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
• The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
• The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
• The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
• Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
• Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
• Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
• Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
• Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
• Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
• Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
• Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18) See GayPrejudice.com
• Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
• Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
• Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
• Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
• Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) See GayPrejudice.com
• Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
• Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
• Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
• Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
• Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
• Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
• Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
• Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
• Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
• Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
• Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
• Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
• Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
• Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)

 

[Sonofason]

What you (or I) do is not really relevant. The question would be what the writers did. Do you have some reason to believe shoes were excluded?

I'm sure astronauts would disagree. As would firefighters and anyone whose life depended on their clothing (bulletproof vests, steel toes shoes, heat resistant anything).

But if you think cotton is more durable than ripstop nylon... well: go tell the army. They are all confused.

Some abominations:

• Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
• Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
• Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
• Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
• Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
• Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
• A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
• A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
• A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
• Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
• A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
• Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
• A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
• A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
• Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
• A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
• Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
• The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
• The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
• The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
• Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
• Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
• Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
• Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
• Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
• Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
• Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
• Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18) See GayPrejudice.com
• Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
• Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
• Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
• Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
• Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) See GayPrejudice.com
• Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
• Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
• Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
• Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
• Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
• Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
• Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
• Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
• Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
• Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
• Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
• Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
• Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
• Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
• Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)

Okay, and what do these have to do with our present discussion about clothing?

 

[JerryL]

Okay, and what do these have to do with our present discussion about clothing?

Well. Your answer to the first question would determine if your shoes and sock are, in fact, a sin.

My response on the second part would argue that your claim regarding mixed materials being inferior was false.

 

[Sonofason]

Well. Your answer to the first question would determine if your shoes and sock are, in fact, a sin.

My response on the second part would argue that your claim regarding mixed materials being inferior was false.

Fair enough.

 

[McBell]

Mestemia, In the eyes of the Creator GOD there was to be NO Divorce except for fornication(being unfaithful to one's spouse).

The biblical use of the word "fornicate" means more than just adultery...
But that is a tangent of your divorce tangent which is also irrelevant to the point.

Therefore, more than one wife was not allowed/condoned.

Except multiple wives was condoned...

Yes, there were many incidences where multiple wives were recorded.

Please present the verse(s) that support your above claim "more than one wife was not allowed/condoned".

However, as was written and attested to by Jesus multiple wives were forbidden by that Mark 10:2-12 excerpt---whether divorced or added to.

"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
Moses could not change the Laws of GOD. Neither can any person.

You must have forgotten the verses that support your claim....
And no, the above in blue verses do not make any reference at all to multiple wives.

 

[sojourner]

Lev.20:1, 14, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,.......If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Man with man(woman with woman) is "homo". and that is declared by GOD to be and abomination.
Deny it all you want, but it does not change the fact that GOD is displeased with the act and levied a penalty for the activity.

No. The author said that "God said." It doesn't mean that "God said." It means that the author is appealing to authority.

 

[Sonofason]

sincerly had said:

However, as was written and attested to by Jesus multiple wives were forbidden by that Mark 10:2-12 excerpt---whether divorced or added to.

"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
Moses could not change the Laws of GOD. Neither can any person.

Except multiple wives was condoned...
Please present the verse(s) that support your above claim "more than one wife was not allowed/condoned".

You must have forgotten the verses that support your claim....
And no, the above in blue verses do not make any reference at all to multiple wives.

Exactly, the above quote makes no reference at all to multiple wives.
God said that a man (that is one man) shall leave his father and mother, and cleave to his (one) wife (singular).

There is no mention of such a man being permitted to cleave to any other person than his one wife. In fact, Jesus goes on to say that if a man does have a wife, that he has committed adultery even my merely looking at another woman with lust.

 

[Sonofason]

I wonder if adultery is a form of fornication in Mestemia's eyes?

Is it?

 

[Sonofason]

No. The author said that "God said." It doesn't mean that "God said." It means that the author is appealing to authority.

And that is the wonder of faith.

 

[McBell]

I wonder if adultery is a form of fornication in Mestemia's eyes?

Is it?

I prefer to acknowledge all the definitions:

Fornication
FORNICA'TION, n. [L. fornicatio.]

1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.

2. Adultery. Mat 5.

3. Incest. 1 Cor 5.

4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chr 21. Rev 19.

Websters 18?? dictionary.​

Now the first definition is iffy for there is no verse reference.
However, the last three are referenced.

have fun.

 

[McBell]

Exactly, the above quote makes no reference at all to multiple wives.
God said that a man (that is one man) shall leave his father and mother, and cleave to his (one) wife (singular).

Nice try.
Merely adding you own words in parenthesis does not make it so.

There is no mention of such a man being permitted to cleave to any other person than his one wife. In fact, Jesus goes on to say that if a man does have a wife, that he has committed adultery even my merely looking at another woman with lust.

Where is it forbidden?
I mean, where is it forbidden/condemned/not allowed/ a bad idea/etc. without your adding to the scripture?

 

[McBell]

And that is the wonder of faith.

Wonder?
More like loophole.

 

[Sonofason]

Nice try.
Merely adding you own words in parenthesis does not make it so.


Where is it forbidden?
I mean, where is it forbidden/condemned/not allowed/ a bad idea/etc. without your adding to the scripture?

The words I added where only included to help you understand the verse.

A man is indeed one man. It could be any man, but the text is written in the singular form of man. It is one man.
The word wife, as you already know, is written in the singular form. It is referring to one wife.

Matthew 5:28 - But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Hebrews 13:4 - Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Exodus 20:14 - Thou shalt not commit adultery.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

This all sounds very condemning to me for the adulterer.

 

[Sonofason]

Wonder?
More like loophole.

It is a merciful God who provides loopholes for his children.

 

[sojourner]

And that is the wonder of faith.

We're not talking about the "wonder of faith." We're talking about the reality of the Law. You don't get to discriminate against people and oppress them based on the "wonder of faith." That's what they did to Jesus. had him killed based on the "wonder of faith."