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Is pro-life, and its practices, anti-abortion?

Is pro-life anti-abortion?


  • Total voters
    10

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Hello guys.

I noticed that any thing, whatever it is, if meant to support pro-life measures, is fought back as being anti-abortion.

I could be wrong in my understanding, but what do you say it is?

Like, if a pro-life agency educates people in way to prevent cases that could use abortion, would that be considered an anti-abortion? This is just an example. Please consider giving an original reply before quoting this part.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
What the terms have come to mean are being OK with abortion and wanting to severely limit abortion, essentially.

While the broader meaning of the word 'pro-life' could well apply in many areas relating to what the Catholic Church calls the 'culture of life', in practice that's what it means.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think the term "pro-life" pretty much denotes "anti-abortion" if and when all that is meant by it is that one is against abortions. If and when it might mean something else would be, for instance, if one were not only against abortions, but also against capital punishment and war.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
I'm gonna put in a list of the Catholic Church's 'culture of life' stuff, which could broadly be said to be pro-life ideas:

Opposition to abortion
Opposition to human sterilization
Opposition to human cloning
Opposition to contraception
Opposition to human embryonic stem cell and fetal research, coupled with support for adult stem cell research
Opposition to euthanasia
Opposition to murder and suicide
Opposition to capital punishment
Opposition to unjust war
Promotion of agape love and charity

Promotion of matrimony, maternity, fatherhood, life, chastity, fidelity, and virtue
Promotion of organ donation

I agree with the sentiment, but not all of these ideas. I agree with the bold ones, and sort of the italic ones :D
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I think the term "pro-life" pretty much denotes "anti-abortion" if and when all that is meant by it is that one is against abortions. If and when it might mean something else would be, for instance, if one were not only against abortions, but also against capital punishment and war.
That's basically the position of Pope Francis

A few hours later, the pope spoke to hundreds of US Catholic bishops and specifically linked “the innocent victim of abortion” to other grave threats to life – including “children who die of hunger or from bombings,” “immigrants who drown in the search for a better tomorrow,” and “the environment devastated by man’s predatory relationship with nature.”
 

Deathbydefault

Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Hello guys.

I noticed that any thing, whatever it is, if meant to support pro-life measures, is fought back as being anti-abortion.

I could be wrong in my understanding, but what do you say it is?

Like, if a pro-life agency educates people in way to prevent cases that could use abortion, would that be considered an anti-abortion? This is just an example. Please consider giving an original reply before quoting this part.

I'm not sure, I don't have enough in-depth knowledge about the politics surrounding this issue.
I assume that people who are pro-life would generally rather abortion be a final measure when all else fails.
I don't think that implies anti-abortion, but, like I said, this isn't a realm I have power in...

It does sound like it's counterpart question, though.
"Does being pro-choice necessarily mean you are pro-abortion?"
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I noticed that any thing, whatever it is, if meant to support pro-life measures, is fought back as being anti-abortion.

Calling it anti-abortion is only talking about half of the problem. 'Pro-life' is really anti-choice. 'Pro-lifers' only want to take away the autonomy of about half of the population to decide what happens with their bodies.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
I'm gonna put in a list of the Catholic Church's 'culture of life' stuff, which could broadly be said to be pro-life ideas:

Opposition to abortion
Opposition to human sterilization
Opposition to human cloning
Opposition to contraception
Opposition to human embryonic stem cell and fetal research, coupled with support for adult stem cell research
Opposition to euthanasia
Opposition to murder and suicide
Opposition to capital punishment
Opposition to unjust war
Promotion of agape love and charity

Promotion of matrimony, maternity, fatherhood, life, chastity, fidelity, and virtue
Promotion of organ donation

I agree with the sentiment, but not all of these ideas. I agree with the bold ones, and sort of the italic ones :D

You're anti-abortion?

Um, so the term pro-life was originally made in a church for religious reasons, I see. I thought it was a secular term.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Both terms, "pro-life" and "pro-choice", are heavily loaded. Pro-life far more so than pro-choice, but still.

What is actually meant by "pro-life" is "opposed to legalization of abortion".

What is actually meant by "pro-choice" is "for the legalization of abortion".

It should however be noted that even extreme pro-choicers are not nearly so much for abortion as they are for having legal protection for abortion. There is a very significant difference there, one that may easily translate into perhaps surprising consequences.

Pro-choicers do not like abortions. Even under ideal circunstances, abortions are very traumatic experiences that no one actively pursues or enjoys. But realistically, people have to make choices in their lives, and the blunt fact is that quite often people don't see how they could possibly be good parents at the time of pregnancy.

The perception, unfortunately all too often an accurate one, is that it is more healthy and considerate to abort an embryo early and legally than to deal with an unwanted pregnancy in ways that would penalize all people involved, including the infant. One part of it is the very realistic observation that forbidding abortion does not make it much less likely to occur. It just makes abortions clandestine and riskier. A person who does not feel ready to engage at parenting will not feel better prepared or more able simply because the law says that he or she has no choice.

Nor is the "pro-life" stance necessarily more considerate than its opponent, either. A considerable part of that movement is not even very sincere or coherent, quickly pursuing clandestine abortions when the convenience presents itself, even while their public face insists on the wrongness of it all.

Quite simply, pro-life families are not always significantly less scared of unwanted pregnancies than anyone else, nor do they have a lot more in the way of constructive options.

Lessening the frequency of abortions is (or should be) pretty much an universal goal, even for pro-choicers. But the ways of attaining such a worthy goal probably do not even include forbidding abortions. Instead, effective, realistic sex education is a much more effective measure. So is honest, loving dialog among adults and teenagers. So is pursuing better structure for the adoption of unplanned children.

The main reasons why abortions happen so often are poor sexual education (often naively insistent on "abstinence only"); social stigmas both on abortion itself and on unplanned, out-of-wedlock pregnancy; faiiure of the parents on duly teaching their children about prevention of pregnancy; and this odd cultural expectation that people should hide their mistakes instead of handling them at the light of the day.

Were people able to freely speak that they did not mean to have children and would welcome some support in preventing pregnancy or, failing that, finding willing and loving adoptive parents, abortion would be far less of a problem.

Law is not really helpful in avoiding abortions. It may easily be an aggravator instead.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
You're anti-abortion?

I'm a little fuzzy on it to be honest. I suppose I'm weakly pro-choice but depends a lot on circumstances.

Luis made a great post.

Pro-life isn't exactly a religious term, although pro-life positions are generally associated with certain religious positions.
 
Last edited:

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I have not found, in all the rhetoric I've read from pro-lifers, anything that suggests that it means anything other than "no abortions!" You would be very hard-pressed to find a pro-lifer who will talk about the "lives they've saved" for any more than about a minute after they're born. "Okay, they're human, who cares what happens to them, move on and stop another crazy murderess from killing her sweet little baby."

I was born to a 15-year old single mother in 1948, and have never known what it is to have a family like most people do. (I have my own very small family of me and my life partner now, but that's it.) The pro-lifers (they weren't called that back then...it was the Salvation Army) "saved a life," but I was fostered dozens of times and on the street at 17 when even the Children's Aid was done with me. I made it on my own -- the pro-lifers couldn't have cared less.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
I have not found, in all the rhetoric I've read from pro-lifers, anything that suggests that it means anything other than "no abortions!" You would be very hard-pressed to find a pro-lifer who will talk about the "lives they've saved" for any more than about a minute after they're born. "Okay, they're human, who cares what happens to them, move on and stop another crazy murderess from killing her sweet little baby."

I was born to a 15-year old single mother in 1948, and have never known what it is to have a family like most people do. (I have my own very small family of me and my life partner now, but that's it.) The pro-lifers (they weren't called that back then...it was the Salvation Army) "saved a life," but I was fostered dozens of times and on the street at 17 when even the Children's Aid was done with me. I made it on my own -- the pro-lifers couldn't have cared less.

I delayed this thought here because I didnt want to get into any serious debate over this. Well... I might as well let it out and get it over with.

I own a duplex which I rent both units to very low income families. Both families are single mothers with 4 kids. They are sponsored by section 8 housing authority. Honestly, these families would be in serious trouble without the support of welfare. The mothers can barely support themselves let alone the kids. One family has been homeless before. She receives donations from the salvation army and other charities because she is at high risk of becoming homeless again.

It just saddens me that the children has to go through their early life in such conditions. I wish we could live in a world where there were unlimited resources so all children can have a good healthy upbringing. But the reality is that we don't. In an ideal world, there would be no abortions because abortions would not be needed.

I just want to second your sentiment. Where are all the pro-lifers after the babies are born? They have to continue their fight beyond abortion and see that all the babies grow to adulthood in a nurturing and caring environment. They have to completely understand the economics involved. Every extra person is an addition to a growing population. The issue though is that resources are static and lagged until the new population reaches maturity. Like it or not, we simply have to control our population. If we ensure a nurturing environment for the new population then we give them a better chance to succeed into their adulthood.

I know some will argue that education is the key as opposed to abortion. I agree. We should definitely emphasize education but I believe abortion has to be an option, maybe even a limited one. Many times, people are not ready to be proper parents because they lack the skills to not only support their newborns but to support themselves.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Like @A Greased Scotsman said most "Pro-Lifers" are simply anti-choice. Most of the "pro-life" advocates I have talked to will, if pressed, concede that a rape victim, incest victim, or if the birth is life threatening to mother should be able to get an abortion. This means, I point out, that they are saying abortion is okay as long as it meets their criteria. This, I say to them, is not being "pro-life", this is being anti-choice. Usually the conversation goes downhill from here with name calling on their part becoming common.
 
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