no worriesThat wasn't necessary but it's alrightI apologize again if I offended you with my comments.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is "purity of heart" a universal religious ideal?
- Thread starter lovemuffin
- Start date
It doesn't have much to do with my path, as far as I know. In order to be made "pure", you must be dirty in some way and I don't see how we are. My path is based more around acquisition of knowledge and Self-realization.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
You missed Holy Quran of Islam.
Holy Quran's main stress is on Taqwa, righteousness, purity of heart,
[26:90] ‘But he alone will be saved who brings to Allah a sound heart;’
alislam.org/quran
lovemuffin
τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
You are right. Thank you
Kaula Tantra is something that interests me greatly. Their view on "purity", which I agree with:
"
"In this sacrifice, the wise man should use the very ingredient which is forbidden in the series of scriptures. It is immersed in the nectar-of-the-left." (Tantrāloka)[9]
Actions or objects are not seen impure in themselves, rather the attitude is the determinant factor. Spiritual ignorance is the only impurity and knowledge is pure.[10] As long as one is identified with the supreme consciousness, there is nothing impure.[11] The adept is unaffected by any external impurity[12] and makes use of what is reprehensible to attain transcendence.[13] Here arises the antinomian and asocial character of Kaula and the left-handed forms of Tantra."
Kaula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But that is Left-Hand Path and, as such, a minority path.
"
"In this sacrifice, the wise man should use the very ingredient which is forbidden in the series of scriptures. It is immersed in the nectar-of-the-left." (Tantrāloka)[9]
Actions or objects are not seen impure in themselves, rather the attitude is the determinant factor. Spiritual ignorance is the only impurity and knowledge is pure.[10] As long as one is identified with the supreme consciousness, there is nothing impure.[11] The adept is unaffected by any external impurity[12] and makes use of what is reprehensible to attain transcendence.[13] Here arises the antinomian and asocial character of Kaula and the left-handed forms of Tantra."
Kaula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But that is Left-Hand Path and, as such, a minority path.
Baladas
An Págánach
Yes, self-cultivation is very central to Daoism.
Seeking to live harmoniously, kindness, compassion and generosity, are all encouraged.
Humility is also a strong theme, as well as being true to one's own nature.
Meditation, and contemplating Nature are two ways that I centre myself.
Self-cultivation is not changing oneself into something else though...It is stepping into harmony with the natural order.
I do not think that there is anything wrong with mankind (like original sin), and I truly believe that it is of the utmost importance to be
true to yourself.
Blessings to you.
Seeking to live harmoniously, kindness, compassion and generosity, are all encouraged.
Humility is also a strong theme, as well as being true to one's own nature.
Meditation, and contemplating Nature are two ways that I centre myself.
Self-cultivation is not changing oneself into something else though...It is stepping into harmony with the natural order.
I do not think that there is anything wrong with mankind (like original sin), and I truly believe that it is of the utmost importance to be
true to yourself.
Blessings to you.
To me the end result of purifying is to accept yourself as who you truly are, not living with the false image you are corrupt. You cleanse yourself of all self-images, which entails all self-expectations imparted by culture and yourself of what you "should" be. You simply see yourself as you are, and accept the beauty of it. That to me, is being purified. You are now who you truly are.
From the point of view as to whether the concept of purity of heart is more universal and human quality, Communism as a form of atheism and humanism has said remarkably little on man's inner world beyond the very vague notion of the transformation of a person into the "new man" and "new woman" as the realization of the communist ideal. Specifically with reference to the idea of Christian love (or universal love) is this quote from Nikolai Bukharin; "Christian love, which applies to all, even to one's enemies, is the worst adversary of Communism”. The reason would be that such a concept of universal love would get in the way of waging the Class Struggle against the enemies of socialism. I personally disagree with this position because I think it's really prioritizing the license to destruction over the creative part of social change.
Marxism has been applied to Psychology in the Frankfurt School, most notably by Erich Fromm who was a Marxist humanist and author of "the Art of loving". I think the book is popular amongst secular humanists and is easily one of my favorite authors. He was not a communist in the strict sense, but did have some sympathies to the broad goals of socialism/communism. I'm borrowing quotes but the general tone is that purity of heart is to love without narcissism;
“Love isn't something natural. Rather it requires discipline, concentration, patience, faith, and the overcoming of narcissism. It isn't a feeling, it is a practice.”
“The main condition for the achievement of love is the overcoming of one's narcissism. The narcissistic orientation is one in which one experiences as real only that which exists within oneself, while the phenomena in the outside world have no reality in themselves, but are experienced only from the viewpoint of their being useful or dangerous to one. The opposite pole to narcissism is objectivity; it is the faculty to see other people and things as they are, objectively, and to be able to separate this objective picture from a picture which is formed by one's desires and fears.”
“Most people see the problem of love primarily as that of being loved , rather than that of loving , of one's capacity to love. Hence the problem to them is how to be loved, how to be lovable. In pursuit of this aim they follow several paths. One, which is especially used by men, is to be successful, to be as powerful and rich as the social margin of one's position permits. Another, used especially by women, is to make oneself attractive, by cultivating one's body, dress, etc. .... Many of the ways to make oneself lovable are the same as those used to make oneself successful, to 'win friends and influence people'. As a matter of fact, what most people in our culture mean by being lovable is essentially a mixture between being popular and having sex appeal.”
The closest reference to the idea of 'purity' of heart from a Communist may be this quote from Che Guevara. The first part is often quoted, but I felt the additional context would show how the meaning of 'love' and its purity is ideologically loaded;
At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality. Perhaps it is one of the great dramas of the leader that he or she must combine a passionate spirit with a cold intelligence and make painful decisions without flinching. Our vanguard revolutionaries must idealize this love of the people, of the most sacred causes, and make it one and indivisible. They cannot descend, with small doses of daily affection, to the level where ordinary people put their love into practice.
The leaders of the revolution have children just beginning to talk, who are not learning to call their fathers by name; wives, from whom they have to be separated as part of the general sacrifice of their lives to bring the revolution to its fulfillment; the circle of their friends is limited strictly to the number of fellow revolutionists. There is no life outside of the revolution.
In these circumstances one must have a great deal of humanity and a strong sense of justice and truth in order not to fall into extreme dogmatism and cold scholasticism, into isolation from the masses. We must strive every day so that this love of living humanity will be transformed into actual deeds, into acts that serve as examples, as a moving force. (Man and Socialism in Cuba, 1965).
Marxism has been applied to Psychology in the Frankfurt School, most notably by Erich Fromm who was a Marxist humanist and author of "the Art of loving". I think the book is popular amongst secular humanists and is easily one of my favorite authors. He was not a communist in the strict sense, but did have some sympathies to the broad goals of socialism/communism. I'm borrowing quotes but the general tone is that purity of heart is to love without narcissism;
“Love isn't something natural. Rather it requires discipline, concentration, patience, faith, and the overcoming of narcissism. It isn't a feeling, it is a practice.”
“The main condition for the achievement of love is the overcoming of one's narcissism. The narcissistic orientation is one in which one experiences as real only that which exists within oneself, while the phenomena in the outside world have no reality in themselves, but are experienced only from the viewpoint of their being useful or dangerous to one. The opposite pole to narcissism is objectivity; it is the faculty to see other people and things as they are, objectively, and to be able to separate this objective picture from a picture which is formed by one's desires and fears.”
“Most people see the problem of love primarily as that of being loved , rather than that of loving , of one's capacity to love. Hence the problem to them is how to be loved, how to be lovable. In pursuit of this aim they follow several paths. One, which is especially used by men, is to be successful, to be as powerful and rich as the social margin of one's position permits. Another, used especially by women, is to make oneself attractive, by cultivating one's body, dress, etc. .... Many of the ways to make oneself lovable are the same as those used to make oneself successful, to 'win friends and influence people'. As a matter of fact, what most people in our culture mean by being lovable is essentially a mixture between being popular and having sex appeal.”
The closest reference to the idea of 'purity' of heart from a Communist may be this quote from Che Guevara. The first part is often quoted, but I felt the additional context would show how the meaning of 'love' and its purity is ideologically loaded;
At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality. Perhaps it is one of the great dramas of the leader that he or she must combine a passionate spirit with a cold intelligence and make painful decisions without flinching. Our vanguard revolutionaries must idealize this love of the people, of the most sacred causes, and make it one and indivisible. They cannot descend, with small doses of daily affection, to the level where ordinary people put their love into practice.
The leaders of the revolution have children just beginning to talk, who are not learning to call their fathers by name; wives, from whom they have to be separated as part of the general sacrifice of their lives to bring the revolution to its fulfillment; the circle of their friends is limited strictly to the number of fellow revolutionists. There is no life outside of the revolution.
In these circumstances one must have a great deal of humanity and a strong sense of justice and truth in order not to fall into extreme dogmatism and cold scholasticism, into isolation from the masses. We must strive every day so that this love of living humanity will be transformed into actual deeds, into acts that serve as examples, as a moving force. (Man and Socialism in Cuba, 1965).
lovemuffin
τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
I wanted to say something about this but I've been traveling the last few days, and I'm not sure I'm going to manage to say anything coherently right now, but:
- It's probably good to be mindful of the limitations of the connotations of words, re: "pure" and "dirty". In Syriac Christianity, the phrase used to denote "purity of heart", shafyut lebba, denotes more "luminous clarity". I'm very fond of the syriac usage since it seems to capture something of the mystical experience that's tied to the idea. In any case, you may have to polish a lens from time to time to maintain such clarity, but does the lens getting a smudge on it denote that it "is" dirty in some existential way? Christian tradition also says after all that we are the image and likeness of God. I think it's also clear that in the Buddhist or Hindu versions, the connotations would be different.
- Speaking of Christianity, the greek metanoia of the Christian scriptures might be hard to translate into English: "repentance". I think people mostly now hear something like shame, guilt, compunction, or a sort of moral conviction when they hear the word repentance. A response to a purely external moral standard. I think it's in that way that you are hearing it, perhaps, when you say you don't see yourself that way. And it's true that the Christian idea of "purity" entails also the idea of ancestral sin or the "fallenness" of human nature, in some way. But I think it's easy, especially given the connotations of the english "repentance", to go too far in one direction at the expense of other Christian ideas. In practice, I don't think it's just a response to an external judgement about human "dirtyness". Christian spirituality involves an aspiration to become more than what you presently are, to reach a fullness of potential where that fullness represents one's true nature, which is why "more than what you are" is slightly wrong, because you already are that, but I can't figure out a better way to say it. What we are is an image of God, and even a micro-cosmos. We are symbols of the whole, potentially partakers of the divine nature. That potentia is what we are. Purity of heart is not just shedding guilt for sin but the aspiration to that fullness in a positive way. The fallen-ness of man represents more than anything else the difficulty in reaching that potential. Metanoia means a radical transformation that is not only moral. It means "change of mind" literally, but change of the entire person, a new creation, in its Christian usage.
- Relatedly, my experience, and I think this experience is reasonably common, is that honest self-knowledge leads to an awareness that we don't always live up to our own values, however those values are acquired. Sometimes maybe our values are too ambitious, but I think that ambition, that aspiration, is part of human spirituality. The path you walk towards self-realization is itself a path of cultivation of "purity of heart", broadly understood. "Purity of heart is to will one thing", Kierkegaard said. The one thing is the realization. There's probably a bunch of interesting caveats here about the fact that aspiration itself can make the path difficult, as in the problem of desire in Buddhism, but this is long enough
Nietzsche already spoke of Norse culture, and as a person who is attempting to somehow reinvigorate the Anglo-Saxon variant on the same, it applies here, as well.
I do want to point something out, though. "Purity" has always been kind of a metaphoric term; it references cleanliness, as opposed to being dirty. Cleanliness is almost universally recognized as something worth pursuing because it's easier to keep looks up, and uncleanliness causes disease to spread more easily. Metaphorically speaking, then, "a clean heart" is meant to reference the opposite of "a dirty heart", which is either ugly(socially unattractive), sick(unable to function/liable to spread the sickness), or both depending on who you talk to.
It sounds fine, and like it would be universal enough, except that there are plenty of things that cultures are afraid of as capable of spreading disease, even when they are generally far cleaner than things we interact with every day. It's also worth pointing out that a perfectly "clean" environment is actually a VERY bad thing, because it keeps the immune system from knowing how to defend against diseases, and thus brings about a risk not only of getting sick, but dying. So, if the metaphor is taken to this degree, cultural differences and conceptions keep the idea of "purity of heart" from being any kind of universal.
I do want to point something out, though. "Purity" has always been kind of a metaphoric term; it references cleanliness, as opposed to being dirty. Cleanliness is almost universally recognized as something worth pursuing because it's easier to keep looks up, and uncleanliness causes disease to spread more easily. Metaphorically speaking, then, "a clean heart" is meant to reference the opposite of "a dirty heart", which is either ugly(socially unattractive), sick(unable to function/liable to spread the sickness), or both depending on who you talk to.
It sounds fine, and like it would be universal enough, except that there are plenty of things that cultures are afraid of as capable of spreading disease, even when they are generally far cleaner than things we interact with every day. It's also worth pointing out that a perfectly "clean" environment is actually a VERY bad thing, because it keeps the immune system from knowing how to defend against diseases, and thus brings about a risk not only of getting sick, but dying. So, if the metaphor is taken to this degree, cultural differences and conceptions keep the idea of "purity of heart" from being any kind of universal.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Hinduism was/is sub-servient to Dharma/society. 'Purity of heart' for us means Yama and Niyama (Yoga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Yama (The five "abstentions"): Ahimsa (Non-violence, non-harming other living beings), Satya (truthfulness, non-falsehood), Asteya (non-stealing), Brahmacharya (celibacy, fidelity to one's partner), and Aparigraha (non-avarice, non-possessiveness).
- Niyama (The five "observances"): Śauca (purity, clearness of mind, speech and body), Santosha (contentment, acceptance of others and of one's circumstances), Tapas (persistent meditation, perseverance, austerity), Svādhyāya (study of self, self-reflection, study of Vedas), and Ishvara-Pranidhana (contemplation of God/Supreme Being/True Self).
Last edited:
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
I've never been sure exactly what Jesus meant by "pure in heart" and wading through some stuff on the internet comes up answers ranging from "penitent for sin" to "approving what is excellent". My religion can endorse to second, but not the first: we have no concept of sin as it's understood by Christians.
As for "fasting, humility, and self-emptying", we certainly have no place for those. I'd agree with David Hume that "self-denial, humility … and the whole train of monkish virtues" should be classed as vices rather than virtues, since they "stupefy the understanding and harden the heart, obscure the fancy and sour the temper".
AmyintheBibleBelt
Active Member
Define inner purity.
lovemuffin
τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
From a comparative religion standpoint, I didn't want to over-define it because what is interesting to me is that there appear to be parallels, or what you might call a kind of functional equivalence, between views in different traditions, even though the views aren't identical, or without conflicts.
From my (Christian) perspective, the phrase is richly symbolic and evocative (for example, it evokes for me the sermon on the mount), rather than being a precise concept. It's not the sort of thing I would characterize as having a strict definition. Be that as it may, the most concise way of putting it, from my own Christian perspective, is that purity of heart is to live in the way the sermon on the mount points towards, or in the one commandment Jesus is said to have left, that we "love one another". It's not just a question of a set of ethical precepts, or an emotional bond, but of a self-sacrificing, humble, joyous life that sees it's neighbor not just as "another self", but as its own very self. The experience of one's neighbor as one's self is in itself the experience of God, or of God's love, since God is love, and this commandment is "like" the first, to love God with one's whole being. Purity is "single" in its gaze and contemplation, in the way that Jesus said "if the eye is single, the body will be filled with light", or as in the parable of the pearl with great price. All the other elements I mentioned (prayer, fasting, almsgiving, etc) are means towards that goal.
AmyintheBibleBelt
Active Member
Purity of heart makes me thing of the sweetest, most giving, self sacrificing love I have ever known. The love a parent has for a child. But thst momma bear will become an animal in 1 sec flat if you mess with her cub