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Is Religion Just Making Stuff Up?

crowfeather

crowfeather

One
Nakosis said:
I prefer folks to independently come to their own conclusions. I could be wrong about any number of things and expect my comments to be criticized.
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Then you are not an atheist. An atheist is a religious zealot that can not do other than create conflict.
 
Augustus

Augustus

…
Religions reflect the distillation and evolution of diverse human knowledge, cultural practice and experiences and how these relate to the way we do/should perceive the world. This is also true of any guiding ideology or worldview.

I'm not sure that collective human experience is best described as 'making stuff up'.
 
Jeremiahcp

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
Quintessence said:
Yes, I did notice that after making the post, though unfortunately the post doesn't really illuminate anything about how you view the relationship between religions and storytelling. Still curious for clarification to the direct question posed, though:

Framing like "just making stuff up" makes it sound like the subject being spoken of is baseless whimsy with no purpose and should be treated dismissively. It's a derogatory way of referring to the subject at hand. Was this or was this not your intended meaning?
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Religion is more than just storytelling, which is evident by these forums. Many people take it upon themselves to expand on those stories and derive things from the stories that really was never there in the first place. Religion itself is not just simply storytelling, which is the main reason I reject your comparison. Just calling religion storytelling is an incomplete picture, and, personally, I think it is clear that religion involves a fair bit of making stuff up.

"Still curious for clarification to the direct question posed, though:"

That question was rhetorical and meant as an insult, it did not warrant a response.
 
Jeremiahcp

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
I am sorry if the term "making stuff up" upset people, it was just the term I was thinking in, but I also noticed non-believers got upset when I called their baseless claims a "double standard". Both sides make baseless claims, and perhaps that is a sensitive subject but I think exploring the differences is worthwhile.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Jeremiahcp said:
Religion is more than just storytelling, which is evident by these forums. Maybe people take it upon themselves to expand on those stories and derive things from the stories that really was never there in the first place. Religion itself is not just simply storytelling, which is the main reason I reject your comparison. Just calling religion storytelling is an incomplete picture, and, personally, I think it is clear that religion involves a fair bit of making stuff up.
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Sorry, it probably isn't clear how I approach the notion of storytelling. I come at things from the angle of bardic traditions, where storytelling means far more than what many people in my culture associate with it. Getting into that probably isn't necessary at this time. It's certainly true that the nature of religion transcends even this understanding of storytelling, but since we are talking about the elements of religion that are criticized as "just making stuff up," it seems to me that the narrative components of religion (aka, the storytelling) are what is relevant to the discussion, not the other things, right? Or do you see this notion of "just making stuff up" as being relevant to the other aspects of religion, like its community and social functions?

Jeremiahcp said:
That question was rhetorical and meant as an insult, it did not warrant a response.
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It wasn't intended as an insult at all, nor is it rhetorical. I ask the question because the phrase "making stuff up" is typically derogatory or negative and is therefore going to impact how people respond to the question (myself included). I'm trying to figure out if the derogatory framing is deliberate or not, and I can't do that without making either an assumption or just asking you for clarification. I prefer asking for clarification to making assumptions about someone's intended meaning.
 
McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Jeremiahcp said:
Read the forums, I see it all over the place. People making claims about what gods there are, how they think, what they want, making claims about the afterlife, going on about what heaven is, what hell is, making claims about creation, "God's" purpose for life, and just a wide variety of various stuff. A good chunk of religion is just people making stuff up. You can pretend that is not part of it all you want, but the proof is in these forums.
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Seems to me you are conflating the religion with the beliefs of the followers
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Augustus said:
Religions reflect the distillation and evolution of diverse human knowledge, cultural practice and experiences and how these relate to the way we do/should perceive the world. This is also true of any guiding ideology or worldview.

I'm not sure that collective human experience is best described as 'making stuff up'.
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I usually refer to it as maps or stories. Maps or stories that aim to describe the territory of reality as some particular individual experiences it. That process of mapmaking or storytelling is something that gets lost sometimes, particularly when we aren't aware that we are making a map or telling a story.
 
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