Is religion making us all stupid ?

[Valjean]

Well I was sadly a Christian for many years and I was also caught up in the dogma of my religion, I probably know more about it than you ?.

As far as understanding religion and religious history, multiple studies, like this below, seem to point to the nonbelievers having a greater breadth of knowledge in this area.
U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey

 

[psychoslice]

As far as understanding religion and religious history, multiple studies, like this below, seem to point to the nonbelievers having a greater breadth of knowledge in this area.
U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey

Thank for that info, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[JakofHearts]

Thank for that info, I was thinking the same thing.

lol Yeah sure you were.

There is also a poll that shows that atheists are most least trusted group in the world. I suspect it is likely because they deny the realities and are known to be intellectually dishonest.

 

[psychoslice]

lol Yeah sure you were.

There is also a poll that shows that atheists are most least trusted group in the world. I suspect it is likely because they deny the realities and are known to be intellectually dishonest.

Ha, again, you are thinking of the religious, their the ones who are mostly intellectually dishonest, such as the belief in creationism, where there is no proof what so ever, yes very dishonest and manipulative towards their congregation.

 

[JakofHearts]

Ha, again, you are thinking of the religious, their the ones who are mostly intellectually dishonest, such as the belief in creationism, where there is no proof what so ever, yes very dishonest and manipulative towards their congregation.

I'm just going off what the polls say about atheists, not by your delusions.

Nice "free think" you got there.

 

[psychoslice]

I'm just going off what the polls say about atheists, not by your delusions.

Nice "free think" you got there.

Yes your polls, they seem to do that, always sneakily trying to twist all around to suit their selves, they have been doing that forever.

 

[JakofHearts]

Yes your polls, they seem to do that, always sneakily trying to twist all around to suit their selves, they have been doing that forever.

Well, I don't know what to tell you, the majority of people do not trust people like you because you're a known fraud, intellectually. That's a fact, and facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[psychoslice]

Well, I don't know what to tell you, the majority of people do not trust people like you because you're a known fraud, intellectually. That's a fact, and facts don't care about your feelings.

Please go away and learn a bit more, your making a fool of yourself.

 

[icehorse]

lol Yeah sure you were.

There is also a poll that shows that atheists are most least trusted group in the world. I suspect it is likely because they deny the realities and are known to be intellectually dishonest.

I gotta ask, is it your religion that makes you such a happy person?

 

[JakofHearts]

I gotta ask, is it your religion that makes you such a happy person?

I do not particularly associate with any religious denominations, but I do respect them for what they try to accomplish in the name of God. They aren't perfect, but I do appreciate them being there, and that is all I can really expect from them.

Happiness isn't the metric in why I believe, I believe because it is a simple truth, and Isn't truth the ultimate freedom? You identify as an antitheist which poses more questions and concerns from an intellectual and moral point of view.

 

[Valjean]

There is also a poll that shows that atheists are most least trusted group in the world. I suspect it is likely because they deny the realities and are known to be intellectually dishonest.

Degree of trust doesn't reflect on atheism's reasonableness. I'd say it speaks more to the intellectual fragility of the religious. Critical thinking and unorthodox ideas are a threat -- not only to one's faith but to one's very ego-identity. If you know in your heart you're dwelling in a house of straw, you fear anything even remotely threatening.

 

[Valjean]

I do not particularly associate with any religious denominations, but I do respect them for what they try to accomplish in the name of God. They aren't perfect, but I do appreciate them being there, and that is all I can really expect from them.

Happiness isn't the metric in why I believe, I believe because it is a simple truth, and Isn't truth the ultimate freedom? You identify as an antitheist which poses more questions and concerns from an intellectual and moral point of view.

Just out of curiosity, what concerns does antitheism pose for you -- and what does truth have to do with freedom?

 

[Valjean]

Well, I don't know what to tell you, the majority of people do not trust people like you because you're a known fraud, intellectually. That's a fact, and facts don't care about your feelings.

How is Jak a known intellectual fraud, if I may ask?

 

[JakofHearts]

Degree of trust doesn't reflect on atheism's reasonableness. I'd say it speaks more to the intellectual fragility of the religious. Critical thinking and unorthodox ideas are a threat -- not only to one's faith but to one's very ego-identity. If you know in your heart you're dwelling in a house of straw, you fear anything even remotely threatening.

Contrary, it is because these people are atheists that makes them unreasonable.

It also baffles me when atheists empathize sound thinking. They believe in logic, critical thinking, and science, but they say these things as if the finest thinkers in history from Augustine to Aquinas, Newton, Luther, Calvin, Jonathan Edwards who was generally regarded by secularists and theists alike as the finest mind ever to grace American soil - as if they're not engaged in critical thinking, and logic, and science.

It's a silly notion that is often spouted by "free-thinkers" which is in turn one of the reasons why atheists are the most distrusted people on earth.

 

[Valjean]

Contrary, it is because these people are atheists that makes them unreasonable.

What makes atheists unreasonable?

It also baffles me when atheists empathize sound thinking. They believe in logic, critical thinking, and science, but they say these things as if the finest thinkers in history from Augustine to Aquinas, Newton, Luther, Calvin, Jonathan Edwards who was generally regarded by secularists and theists alike as the finest mind ever to grace American soil - as if they're not engaged in critical thinking, and logic, and science.

It's a silly notion that is often spouted by "free-thinkers" which is in turn one of the reasons why atheists are the most distrusted people on earth.

None of these theologians were critical thinkers, nor did they know anything of science. Their theology was a priori, their premises were unsupported. Garbage in - garbage out.

You keep harping on this distrust thing. I don't see the relevance.

 

[Scuba Pete]

there you go again,

Yes, yes... how strange it is to reply to someone you disagree with. You caught me there. I even reply to people I agree with. As do all the people here on RF. I guess that doesn't make it strange at all.

In other news, water is wet, deserts are dry.

I'm sure you tried to make a point there, but it was lost on most of us.

its a well known fact

That is not true. Einstein was a theist. So was Charles Darwin. Are you suggesting that you're more intelligent than they are? How droll. It's a well known 'fact' that pseudo-geniuses like to use their atheism as a mark of their supposedly superior intellect. It's only wishful thinking. None of the studies have taken into account any of a hundred other factors that modify IQ tests. It's the very essence of bigotry and yes, most IQ tests are slanted to white privileged males anyway. They are indeed biased and anyone with a sufficient IQ would know and understand this.

that doesn't mean all religious are behind the eight ball,

Why should any religion (or religious person... hard to tell what you meant there) be behind an eight ball? What gives you the authority to put them there? They have the same rights that you have.

so please stop taking it personal

So classic. You say something that is patently offensive, that can easily be interpreted that you have to be dumb as a box of rocks to believe in God and then you tell us to not take it personally? Well, stop including me in your biased opinions and then I can. Your brush is way, way, way too broad.

Here's a clue: If you were stupid as a theist, then you're still stupid as an atheist.

If you were a sheep as a theist then you're still a sheep as an atheist.

Changing your religion doesn't change your IQ. Neither does changing your party affiliation, your stance on Macadamia nut cookies or even your underwear. There are ways to affect the score, but becoming an atheist isn't one of them.

What you're asking me to do, as far as I can tell, is to stop pointing out the bias and bigotry in your initial premise. I'll do that for as long as you can keep holding your breath. Oh please... take that personally. I don't mind. Look deep into your soul/psyche/whatever you want to call it, and change that part about you that thinks you might be superior to any of your fellow humans based on their sex, their ethnicity, their handicaps, their sexual preference, their nationality and yes: even their religion. You're showing the world that you're not that smart when you promote such bias. It's wrong and it's offensive. I thought you should know.

 

[JakofHearts]

What makes atheists unreasonable?

None of these theologians were critical thinkers, nor did they know anything of science. Their theology was a priori, their premises were unsupported. Garbage in - garbage out.

You keep harping on this distrust thing. I don't see the relevance.

I do not doubt atheists or other people with differing opinions are capable of critical thinking and unorthodox ideas; I consider a few non-Christians as impressively capable in matters of critical thought, Confucius, and Nikola Tesla come to mind. The problem resides when you "free think" that only atheists are capable of logic and science and critical thought. This closed-minded and bizarre notion is why people would view you and psychoslice as pretentious and fake.

You mentioned that if you know your heart you're dwelling in a house of straw, you fear anything even remotely threatening. Without self reflection and not standing up to scrutiny, you would certainly be threatened and resort to deluding yourself. Perhaps you and psychoslice should move out of your house of straws, or at least recognize you are in one so you can move forward, intellectually.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

lol Yeah sure you were.

There is also a poll that shows that atheists are most least trusted group in the world.

Polls provide nothing but opinions of the people polled, and can differ wildly depending what the question is, how it is worded, and who is asked. In sum, however, they reflect the opinions -- nothing more -- of some group of people that may or may not be reflective of some majority or minority.

So, the majority of Americans happen to believe in God. If you poll them, might you not expect that wouldn't trust somebody who doesn't share that belief? That same poll taken elsewhere might not show anything like what you claim. And a poll about the Christian belief, taken in India (population: Hindu, Sikh, Muslim) might reveal some things that you wouldn't like very much. So what?

I suspect it is likely because they deny the realities...

Which "realities" do you mean, in fact? Are you referring to the "reality," held by all Muslims, that Jesus is not the Son of God but only a prophet, of which Mohammad was assuredly the last and greatest? How would you defend your "reality" over theirs? Especially when taking into account what "real" means.

...and are known to be intellectually dishonest.

This is a very ugly, unsupported and unsupportable statement -- and if you used it about any one or more individual, identifiable persons in particular, it would probably be libellous. "Known" by whom, and how is it that it is known that an entire group, millions in fact, is "intellectually dishonest?"

Is what you wrote really part of what you think it means to be, as you claim, a "Bible-believing Christian?" Is this what you think Christ might have said?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Another possible answer the question posed by this thread ("is religion making us all stupid") is to suggest visiting any of the debates on evolution versus creation. It has long been my opinion, based on these debates, that one of two things is happening:

1. Either religion makes it very difficult to accept that which is provably true but contradicts the religious dogma (in which case the answer to the thread's question is "yes"), or
2. You have to be somewhat less intelligent to accept a religion which argues against what can be clearly demonstrated, if you only had the patience to learn it.

I do not opt for choice 2, because I am fully aware that some extremely intelligent people are and have been religious (Isaac Newton and Galileo spring rapidly to mind), but if they are intelligent, they always find a way (as the Dalai Lama does) to fit the facts to their religious beliefs.

So, let's answer the question another way: religion isn't necessarily making us stupid, but blind adherence to dogma in spite of evidence that dogma is false is either making some of us stupid, or demonstrating that some of us already are.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes, yes... how strange it is to reply to someone you disagree with. You caught me there. I even reply to people I agree with. As do all the people here on RF. I guess that doesn't make it strange at all.

In other news, water is wet, deserts are dry.

I'm sure you tried to make a point there, but it was lost on most of us.

That is not true. Einstein was a theist. So was Charles Darwin. Are you suggesting that you're more intelligent than they are? How droll. It's a well known 'fact' that pseudo-geniuses like to use their atheism as a mark of their supposedly superior intellect. It's only wishful thinking. None of the studies have taken into account any of a hundred other factors that modify IQ tests. It's the very essence of bigotry and yes, most IQ tests are slanted to white privileged males anyway. They are indeed biased and anyone with a sufficient IQ would know and understand this.

Why should any religion (or religious person... hard to tell what you meant there) be behind an eight ball? What gives you the authority to put them there? They have the same rights that you have.

So classic. You say something that is patently offensive, that can easily be interpreted that you have to be dumb as a box of rocks to believe in God and then you tell us to not take it personally? Well, stop including me in your biased opinions and then I can. Your brush is way, way, way too broad.

Here's a clue: If you were stupid as a theist, then you're still stupid as an atheist.

If you were a sheep as a theist then you're still a sheep as an atheist.

Changing your religion doesn't change your IQ. Neither does changing your party affiliation, your stance on Macadamia nut cookies or even your underwear. There are ways to affect the score, but becoming an atheist isn't one of them.

What you're asking me to do, as far as I can tell, is to stop pointing out the bias and bigotry in your initial premise. I'll do that for as long as you can keep holding your breath. Oh please... take that personally. I don't mind. Look deep into your soul/psyche/whatever you want to call it, and change that part about you that thinks you might be superior to any of your fellow humans based on their sex, their ethnicity, their handicaps, their sexual preference, their nationality and yes: even their religion. You're showing the world that you're not that smart when you promote such bias. It's wrong and it's offensive. I thought you should know.

I'll just simply say again, religion can make us dumb, its well known fact, religion can keep many from discovery what is outside their religion, and some religions don't like you looking outside, I was one of those so I know what I am talking about, but do you ?.