Is religion the source of morality?

[Sunstone]

Does it matter whether you believe in God or not?

You are following a set of general rules and rituals which was forwarded by your society since long long time a go. Isn't it?

I've never thoroughly considered where my values come from other than to notice that they seem for the most part to have been values with me as far back as I can remember. Since my morals are based on my values, I'd have to say that my morals come not so much from religion (so far as I know) but from my values, which I might well have been born with.

But these are just guesses, Truth. I really haven't looked into it as much as perhaps I should.

 

[love]

We can learn alot from the animal kingdom and other natural aspects of God's creation.

 

[YmirGF]

Imho so-called "morality" comes from the mind of the human animal, not from "god". In my view, "god" is beyond such trifles. The only rule is that there are no rules, save those man alone creates. "Morality" does not mean the same thing to everyone, although many make the simple assumption that it does, due largely to the influence of the various religions.

Throughout the world we have different standards about what constitutes "morality"; so to claim that "morality" comes from religion is a bit of a red herring. I will admit that religion tries to set "morality" within certain confines however. The reality is that morality existed long before any words were set down. It is not as if there was no morality of any kind prior to the idea popping up in the various self-serving religious text, although they would certainly like to take credit for it. In my opinion, as stated above, morality comes from within… not from without and is a reflection of inner “balance” and harmony.

 

[TashaN]

Is religion the source of morality?

Yes and no. A person can be moral without being religious, and a person can depend on religion for moral guidance. I say "guidance" because, even with religion, I think people still develop some of their own morals.

Yet, they still depend in religion.

"Then why unreligious people tend to call religions as "evil" for instance while it's the main source for their morality?"

Hippocrites.

Not necessary, but maybe they just were busy denying the existance of God and the proofs which support it instaead of looking deeply into this life and how we can't control life but life is which control us in term of living and death and we still deny things which we didn't try to explore and focus on in details to examine the truth and source of this life. Sometimes, people tend to pick upon some mistakes by those who tend to be religious and they don't look from the real thing, God himself and his creatures.

Unlike other creatures on earth who follow natural instinct as their guide, mankind has an infinite ability to do evil. God had to implement rules for man to follow (or not). Religious laws have been passed down for generations and this has shaped society as we know it.

Indeed, that's what i'm talking about.

 

[TashaN]

Its because you get square babies...so I was told

heheh

 

[TashaN]

All social animals have a sence of morality. There are rules that you need to have to live in a group.

In my faith was our animal brothers/sisters who taught us how to live. Wolves taught us to live together in a group, Bever taught us how to build good homes and so on.

wa:do

Yeah, animals can teach us alot of things, but the fact that we tend to recieve, that prove without a doubt that we must reciece guidance or our lives would be in a mess. Don't you agree with me?

I've never thoroughly considered where my values come from other than to notice that they seem for the most part to have been values with me as far back as I can remember. Since my morals are based on my values, I'd have to say that my morals come not so much from religion (so far as I know) but from my values, which I might well have been born with.

Would you have the same values if you were living alone without any contact with human beings?

Then, we will be able to find out whether these values came from being in contact with other human beings or you were born with it.

But these are just guesses, Truth. I really haven't looked into it as much as perhaps I should.

So now you have got a real chance to look into it. It's not too late yet.

 

[TashaN]

"Morality" does not mean the same thing to everyone, although many make the simple assumption that it does, due largely to the influence of the various religions.

We are just talking in general and the things which "almost" most of human beings agree upon as being part of morality.

Throughout the world we have different standards about what constitutes "morality"; so to claim that "morality" comes from religion is a bit of a red herring.

They are different because people tried to develop, add or substarct in/from it to fit into their needs.

I will admit that religion tries to set "morality" within certain confines however. The reality is that morality existed long before any words were set down. It is not as if there was no morality of any kind prior to the idea popping up in the various self-serving religious text, although they would certainly like to take credit for it. In my opinion, as stated above, morality comes from within… not from without and is a reflection of inner “balance” and harmony.

I guess you are talking about *sciptures* but not about *religions*. Just because we mentioned religion so that doesn't mean by anyway that we mean a certain religious scipture but rather, a set of rules and guidance by God which created a religion whether there was written revelation with them or not.

 

[painted wolf]

I don't think religion gave us morality, I think religion is a result of morality and a need to explain where a cultures morals come from.

Morality exists in cultures that have no 'religion' per say.
Morality and laws exist in all social animals, even bee's have law and punnishment for breaking those laws. Do you suggest that Bee's have religion?

wa:do

 

[Sunstone]

Would you have the same values if you were living alone without any contact with human beings?

Then, we will be able to find out whether these values came from being in contact with other human beings or you were born with it.

I strongly suspect that at least some of my values I was born with. That is to say, I was born with a predisposition to those values. I can't prove that, but that's my suspicion.

You ask some very good questions here, Truth. If I was going to guess, I would guess that we are born with at least some of our values, and that perhaps we develop others as a result of our upbringing and exposure to other people. But even those values we are born with that are only predispositions at birth, are values that we develop fully in a social environment.

That seems to raise the question of where those predispositions come from, doesn't it? Could they be based on our genes? Could they be things we in some way inherit from our parents?

 

[TashaN]

Morality exists in cultures that have no 'religion' per say.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that they have not been affected by any sort of religious enlightment in the past.

Morality and laws exist in all social animals, even bee's have law and punnishment for breaking those laws. Do you suggest that Bee's have religion?

wa:do

We can't compare between human beings and bees of course. It's somthing totally different. All animals have special laws of their own and they don't even have to learn it like what human beings do so.

 

[PureX]

When religion becomes the source of morality, blood runs in the streets.

Any morality that is not based on love and forgiveness, tends to turn sour and poison everyone who injests it.

 

[TashaN]

Ohhh my, i sent a reply to this post but it was gone.

I'll try to send this again.

You ask some very good questions here, Truth. If I was going to guess, I would guess that we are born with at least some of our values, and that perhaps we develop others as a result of our upbringing and exposure to other people. But even those values we are born with that are only predispositions at birth, are values that we develop fully in a social environment.

I totally agree with you.

That seems to raise the question of where those predispositions come from, doesn't it? Could they be based on our genes? Could they be things we in some way inherit from our parents?

It might be, but i suspect that, because it will raise another question which is, from where did the first parents ever --Adam and Eve in the case of the Abrahamic beliefs-- got their first moral code or predispositions from?

I have an answer in my mind, but that might not be the case for everyone, but based on islamic point of veiw.

[172] When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their loins, their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?" They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful." (Quran 7:172)

 

[TashaN]

When religion becomes the source of morality, blood runs in the streets.

Any morality that is not based on love and forgiveness, tends to turn sour and poison everyone who injests it.

That's why we are concentrating in the origin of this issue but not how any religion developed or interpreted a certain law to become a violent one for instance. When we say the source, we don't assert that we have to follow religion NOW because it's the source of morality, but rather, a deep thinking in how did morality originated in the first place.

 

[gnomon]

I believe that the notion of social morality predates religious morality. I think that religious morality came later, especially as a means to grant authority of the ruler over the people. Even the Code of Hammurabi includes a long "prayer" stating how Hammurabi receives his authority from the Gods to deliver state law. Yet, I believe most of those laws are merely the setting in stone of tribal customs whose moral beliefs are human concepts started with the aggregation of human beings into collective units.

The unfortunate thing is that there is no historical record to show us the minds of the earliest civilizations and how they originated their beliefs. It wouldn't be proper to project the modern concepts of religious morality onto thier beliefs. It also wouldn't be proper to state de facto that morality sprang from social agreement. It is my belief that the latter is true and that religion came later.

 

[michel]

We all are aware that there is a set of rules and a stanard of morality and it might not be excatly the same in all nations but all of them do have it or some, at least.

Nowadays, people tend to think that just because we live in a moral society so this have nothing to do with religion but with human beings developement, but how did human beings developed if they didn't take these ideas from other moral socities?

For instance, what if a girl loved her brother or uncle so much and wanted to marry him?

Some people might say, why not?

Nevertheless, we used to the idea that this is incest and she shouldn't do so. Religion say it's illegal to do so but some pagans and royal families were doing it in the past.

So what do you think?

Do people nowadays see it as incest just because religions made it prohibited to do so, and by default it was applied to the society as a general standard of morality with years?



P.S. please inform me if there is a similar thread to this one.

Religion can be a source of morality - as can secularism.

Nevertheless, we used to the idea that this is incest and she shouldn't do so. Religion say it's illegal to do so but some pagans and royal families were doing it in the past.

I think the Church probablytook on the "incest" angle from the purely practical POV of weaker genetic traits being reinforced, with children becomming "weaker" and weaker.

The best description of the effects of incest is - paradoxically - in pet dogs.

A large number of people want to have a pet that is a thoroughbred - my parents did - All animals are succeptible (not just pets). Arabian horses have been in-bred (another word for bred by incest) so as to improve certain qualities; like i said, the same can be seen in pet dogs.

However, some breeds have been so in-bred that they are weak, have genetic "faults" and great weaknesses.

The incestuous relationships in Royal families (in the middle ages until Victorian times) was notorious - and the effects could be seen; some of the Children born from such relationships were sickly, weak children.

On the whole though, I would repeat that morality can come from either religion or secular societies.

I think it pretty obvious that any society would soon find itself making rules that sound much like the Christian 10 commandments out of sheer practicability.

Thou shalt not kill - well, that's an obvious one; it must be the base for any society.

Thou shalt not steal - again

Though shalt not fancy thy neighbour's wife (adultery is messy and causes problems).......I could go on.

 

[PureX]

That's why we are concentrating in the origin of this issue but not how any religion developed or interpreted a certain law to become a violent one for instance. When we say the source, we don't assert that we have to follow religion NOW because it's the source of morality, but rather, a deep thinking in how did morality originated in the first place.

I think morality developed as a matter of desire and necessity. I think we needed to make a pact with each other, for the sake of our survival, based on the "doing unto others" concept. Or perhaps we should call it the "do NOT unto others ..." concept.

But besides this basic need for mutual security, I think we also desire to establish values and meaning in our lives. And we find that through the experience of "love", we are able to do this. So that the way we treat ourselves and each other becomes more than just a pact for the sake of mutual survival, but it also becomes an endeavor of the spirit, to establish and expand the value and meaning of our own existence, rather than just the duration of our life or the avoidance of pain.

 

[Quiddity]

Morality is in it's simplest form an attachment. Since the human species innately does this, then morality comes from within us all.

 

[Flappycat]

Nowadays, people tend to think that just because we live in a moral society so this have nothing to do with religion but with human beings developement, but how did human beings developed if they didn't take these ideas from other moral socities?

Simple. We consider certain things "immoral" because they have unpleasant consequences. Much of morality can be determined from common sense.

For instance, what if a girl loved her brother or uncle so much and wanted to marry him?

Some people might say, why not?

Until they realized what inbreeding leads to.

Do people nowadays see it as incest just because religions made it prohibited to do so, and by default it was applied to the society as a general standard of morality with years?

No. If incest didn't have a negative result, there would be no purpose in being against it. I still don't see the sense in making a fuss over relations between distant cousins, though.

 

[Valjean]

I suspect those who rely on religion as their moral compass are at low Kohlberg stages. They are morally crippled and use religion as a crutch.

 

[Ozzie]

IMO religion is an articulation of normative morality derived by cultural development. IMO there is a source of natural morality at the interface of individual functioning with the environment. Natural selection is the source of this morality.