• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Richard Dawkins a good scientist?

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
This is where your ignorance (and Dawkins makes similar mistakes. Which is probably why you haven't the foggiest idea how to spot the difference) radiates through my screen. There is a long history of the validity of universals, forms, absolutes, etc. that trace their connections to monotheistic religions. They were able to come to such conclusions through pure reason and no need for a holy book.

The idea that anything goes once you cross the line is sheer nonsense and a conversation stopper at best. It is age-old rhetorical babble passed on from one ignorant to another.

Even in the fairy world that you see, just know that we draw lines in the sand as well and it's got an enourmous historical philosophical tradition to back it up. Something that Dawkins is simply a goof at. In reading his book, he barely touches on the Summa and butchers it why he's at it.

I've read Aquinas' justifications and I found them unconvincing.
He makes way too many unfounded assumptions for my taste, and I imagine both Hitchens and Dawkins would agree.
Of course, depending on the religion and partition thereof one can find many logical faults and notions that, if followed to its logical consequence, would lead to bloody disaster.
From the condemnation of homosexuals, the war on contraceptives, the sins, the promised ethereal rewards and punishments...
The list goes on.
And yet, the greatest fault of all the religions followed by the vast majority is the undeniable fact that they have absolutely no evidence for their central claim.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
I asked that question from jarofthoughts as he gave a remark about Quran; otherwise one would read a book if one finds interest in it; I understand.

And I have answered that question.
I have read the Quran, the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita and many more.
 
How do you figure? By what measure? IIRC, before his retirement in 2008(?), he only held a chair at Oxford for the previous several years, not an actual teaching position. Most of his "education" has been giving lectures on atheism and anti-religion.
OTOH he's written only one (1, Roman numeral I) books on atheism / anti-religion, meanwhile he has written several books on evolutionary biology. Also see these two TV series on evolution:

[youtube]jHoxZF3ZgTo[/youtube]
Ep 1: Waking Up in the Universe - Growing Up in the Universe - Richard Dawkins - YouTube

[youtube]ptV9sNezEvk[/youtube]
The Genius Of Charles Darwin - Part 1 - Life, Darwin & Everything - YouTube

Dawkins became more involved in religious debates when Creationists started making a fuss over his books on evolution. Then he wrote one book about religion and, again, people with tender sensibilities made a big fuss.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
And yet, the greatest fault of all the religions followed by the vast majority is the undeniable fact that they have absolutely no evidence for their central claim.

And the atheists don't have yet one to start with. None of them ever proved that the one true God does not exist.
Had they believed in evidences they would have one?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Science is our best and most powerful tool for figuring out and describing reality.
It is a method of inquiry, and a wildly successful one at that.

Reality always existed and needed no science to describe it; and the tool is not appropriate. It is like pulling a nail with a hammer; it is not a proper tool to pull a nail. Is it?
 

McBell

Unbound
Reality always existed and needed no science to describe it
unless of course you wanted truth over fantasy and wishful thinking.

remember, people used to think that the man literally planted a seed in the woman and that the woman was nothing more than an incubator.

So much for accurately describing reality....

Interestingly enough, it was the creation tale from the Bible that led people to believe in spontaneous generation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
OTOH he's written only one (1, Roman numeral I) books on atheism / anti-religion, meanwhile he has written several books on evolutionary biology.

Is your postulation that Dawkins is primarily a biologist and made most, if not all, of his money on biology instead of atheism?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
unless of course you wanted truth over fantasy and wishful thinking.

remember, people used to think that the man literally planted a seed in the woman and that the woman was nothing more than an incubator.

So much for accurately describing reality....

Interestingly enough, it was the creation tale from the Bible that led people to believe in spontaneous generation.

It is people's misunderstanding; not religions' fault.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Now now. You asked the question, answered the question, and also finally admitted you have no intention to read Dawkins scientific literature in the first place.

Because I already agree with him on evolution; so why waste time reading yet another book on this subject.

Is it very essential to read it for a human being? Why? Please

I also have not read his book"God Delusion" as it does not become of a scientist/biologist to write on religion without studying religion deeply, unless he opts to become a lay man; then one should know one loses the privileges of being a scientist.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
What does that have to do with describing reality without science?
Interesting how you YOU jumped to that particular conclusion....

My remarks were for the sentences:

remember, people used to think that the man literally planted a seed in the woman and that the woman was nothing more than an incubator.

Interestingly enough, it was the creation tale from the Bible that led people to believe in spontaneous generation.

Please correct me if I was wrong.
 

McBell

Unbound
My remarks were for the sentences:
Please correct me if I was wrong.
You jumped to the conclusion that I was attacking religion.

I was merely pointing out that people believed man literally planted a seed in the woman.

the fact that the Biblical creation story led to the wide spread belief in spontaneous generation is not the attack you assumed it was.
It was merely the stating of a fact.

Are you going to be going out of your way to play the martyr the whole discussion?
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
And the atheists don't have yet one to start with. None of them ever proved that the one true God does not exist.
Had they believed in evidences they would have one?

The onus of proof is on those making the positive claim.
So that's settled.

Carl Sagan correctly stated that 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence', and the claim that a being such as a god is real is among the more extraordinary claims you can make.
In other words; theists have all their work ahead of them.
 
Last edited:
Top