Actually, it often is.
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Is Richard Dawkins Dividing The World?
- Thread starter Skeptisch
- Start date
tarasan
Well-Known Member
I can also explain to you why non belief would crop up in a world where there was a God does that refute your claim? to state that these kind of theories are evidence is a little sad, and how does a God contradict nature? so no you cant Im sorry making these general claims without going into specifics is exactly what you accused us of at the very start of the conversation.
we dont believe in faires because firstly there has been no good arguement for fairies while for christianity alone I could say william lane craig, augustine, hume, hugal etc.
also i could say people do believe in fairies! i dont because I have a faith in a religion which doesnt, so i have no reason to. that and they have no philisophical backing.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
Tccccccssshhhhhhhhhhhhh, they need their blanket..
tarasan
Well-Known Member
tarasan
Well-Known Member
degrading = no good arguements. especially when you didnt even wait for me to respond.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
Oohhh.. Did you hear that guys? No good evidence? The evidence is everywhere, that you deny the evidence is not my problem.
Clearly you been brought up in a home or culture that want to you deny Fairies, this is really sad, I hope there comes a time in your life when you accept the real world and take Fairies into your heart, until then, your heart is cold.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
Yes, you are indeed correct, but you do believe in gods, degrading comments are valid towards fairy deniers and god believers I think. :angel2:
tarasan
Well-Known Member
beleive that if you want there is no good philiopical arguements for fairies and i myself have never experienced them, if there is no good arguement and no expeience. Trying and mock if you want it only shows you have no real response.
tarasan
Well-Known Member
then clearly you are closed minded, so why continue this discussion, heck why even be on this forum if you are not open to new ideas?
Gabethewiking
Active Member
So let me get this straight, if you haven't experienced it, it ain't true?
Gabethewiking
Active Member
If you have no evidence for your "ideas", what would the point be?
tarasan
Well-Known Member
did i say that? No i said my faith is based on evidence and experience, for example If i were to take a hulucinagine I know what i was seeing wasnt real because of the evidence that i had accumulated beforehand.
did i clear it up?
tarasan
Well-Known Member
I would ask you the same question. I have philiosphy and the like and my experience, but then again ultimately I guess Im at the stage where I need more than just experience I need arguements and I need to read and confirm with myself my religion, and the problems people find with it, as well as looking at other views. ultimately though ive stood by my religion because I feel it best explains life.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
And I said, this is fine as long as you do not deny facts.
Do you accept Facts of Evolution
Do you accept Human History?
Do you accept ... ad infinitum
As long as you are doing that, then you can 'believe' whatever you want, but if you go against the real world, you have to admit there is issues....
tarasan
Well-Known Member
I beleive in evolution (but i only know the basics)
human history.... yeah my religion has done terrible things
do I accept that things go on forever or repeat themselves forever...... hmmmmm i guess God goes on forever.. does teh universe.... I dont know perhaps..... it all depends really i havnt read alot on it.
The real world as we know it? yeah i find i need to be honest with myself.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
See, so there is no real issue for me in this case, as a note, you do not need to believe in Evolution, you have the facts of it, no belief needed
So this is more of a personal thing for you, you want a god/gods for whatever reason, reason and evidence is not relevant it is just your "thing", and this I have no problem with, you do not harm anyone (as long as you do not incotrinate your children), you do not prevent scientific research and a brighter future and so on.
The problem could come later on, say if you wanted to study Evolution (I use Evolution as an example here as best known) and understand how the world came to be as it is today and so on, then the god concept you have would make no sense, humans are not unique or special, we are not better or worse then any other animal as well as we only existed for a blink of an eye, so if you would be honest then you would, if not secular, become a kind of pantheist, and really no different from a secular/atheist.
And many, especially people who have specifically been indoctrinated into believing in things like the literal word of the Holy Bible, gets huge problems as they need to deny reality to continue their beliefs, most honest people simple lose any belief'faith they have and become hardcore atheist and start promoting this because they seen the evils their beliefs have caused.
You obviously are not part of this, you already accept reality but still want your god belief seemingly very aware you can not defend such a position, it is simple your own personal view, which I have no problems with, but I do get problems if they indoctrinate their children, or want to prevent proper education or scientific research.
So to get back to the topic, I think this is what Richard wants to do, make the world a better one, a more open one with less ignorance and stupidity that lead to war, respect for all humans, and this is a problem when some of the humans kill others in the name of a god they claim to exist.
tarasan
Well-Known Member
See, so there is no real issue for me in this case, as a note, you do not need to believe in Evolution, you have the facts of it, no belief needed
So this is more of a personal thing for you, you want a god/gods for whatever reason, reason and evidence is not relevant it is just your "thing", and this I have no problem with, you do not harm anyone (as long as you do not incotrinate your children), you do not prevent scientific research and a brighter future and so on.
The problem could come later on, say if you wanted to study Evolution (I use Evolution as an example here as best known) and understand how the world came to be as it is today and so on, then the god concept you have would make no sense, humans are not unique or special, we are not better or worse then any other animal as well as we only existed for a blink of an eye, so if you would be honest then you would, if not secular, become a kind of pantheist, and really no different from a secular/atheist.
And many, especially people who have specifically been indoctrinated into believing in things like the literal word of the Holy Bible, gets huge problems as they need to deny reality to continue their beliefs, most honest people simple lose any belief'faith they have and become hardcore atheist and start promoting this because they seen the evils their beliefs have caused.
You obviously are not part of this, you already accept reality but still want your god belief seemingly very aware you can not defend such a position, it is simple your own personal view, which I have no problems with, but I do get problems if they indoctrinate their children, or want to prevent proper education or scientific research.
So to get back to the topic, I think this is what Richard wants to do, make the world a better one, a more open one with less ignorance and stupidity that lead to war, respect for all humans, and this is a problem when some of the humans kill others in the name of a god they claim to exist.
no I am not a bible literalist, I beleive there are good reasons of being so
no i would indoctrinate my chidlren, it would be illogical in my view, if they believed it because it was my faith then it wouldnt be them believing it, which is completely against what I believe, I say let them make their own decisions. I cannot defend my religon emprically, although I can rationalise it and make it make sense, I believe, also i believe in experience.
I think that we all want to stop the killing and bigotry man, I believe that Richard does it in the wrong way, I feel he creates a divide in the understanding, he seems to treat religious people as stupid irrational, illogical people and i just dont see evidence for that. I would go far to say he is a bad man, no infact i believe he is a good man, but I believe he goes about it in the wrong way.
That should be all our goal.
Carl Sagan once said something like, You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.
Richard Dawkins knows he cant make atheists out of true believers. A true believer would not be a true believer if he were to abandon his or her belief. For a true believer, belief and faith are virtues. Richard, time and again, expresses the hope that people will start to do a little critical thinking:
Much of what people do is done in the name of God. Irishmen blow each other up in his name. Arabs blow themselves up in his name. Imams and ayatollahs oppress women in his name. Celibate popes and priests mess up people's sex lives in his name. Jewish shohets cut live animals' throats in his name. The achievements of religion in past history -- bloody crusades, torturing inquisitions, mass-murdering conquistadors, culture-destroying missionaries, legally enforced resistance to each new piece of scientific truth until the last possible moment -- are even more impressive. And what has it all been in aid of? I believe it is becoming increasingly clear that the answer is absolutely nothing at all. There is no reason for believing that any sort of gods exist and quite good reason for believing that they do not exist and never have. It has all been a gigantic waste of time and a waste of life. It would be a joke of cosmic proportions if it weren't so tragic.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
By the way, can anyone here find a source for the “... Otherwise they should just shut up about it” quote? I've checked several different websites and not one has provided a source. Most of them seem to be just anti-Dawkins websites (but even Positive Atheism (since 1995) Join the Struggle Against Anti-Atheist Bigotry! doesn't provide a source).
footprints
Well-Known Member
There is no evidence for the absolute origin of the universe. Therefore according to you belief, the universe cannot exist.
Either that or you are guility of applying double standards.