Is Richard Dawkin's view that the human eye was designed by an idiot really science ?

[SkepticThinker]

What about it?

It's not a flaw?

 

[Demonslayer]

Myopia is associated with lower vitamin D status in young adults.

Your argument is like saying that your car is a bad design because if you don't put oil in it, it starts working badly.

By your logic, every 6-cylinder engine cannot have been designed because 3- and 4-cylinder engines work just fine with fewer cylinders.

First of all, depending on what study you read, myopia is or is not related to vitamin D deficiency. Most studies I've read show an increase in myopia over the past 40 years from about 25% of the population to the 40% we see now, and relate the increase to more time spent staring at close up things like computer screens.

But there is also a genetic component to myopia, which sort of blows your vitamin D/motor oil idea.

http://www.healio.com/optometry/ped...-find-no-association-between-vitamin-d-myopia

Secondly, even if we accept your premise, why didn't God just make the eye immune to vitamin D deficiency?

If your semi-silly example about the car engine, if I were God I'd just make a car that didn't need oil. There, I just beat God again in the design business.

 

[Demonslayer]

Eagles and hawks eyes are way better than human eyes. Why did God design some eyes so much better than other eyes?

 

[Zosimus]

First of all, depending on what study you read, myopia is or is not related to vitamin D deficiency. Most studies I've read show an increase in myopia over the past 40 years from about 25% of the population to the 40% we see now, and relate the increase to more time spent staring at close up things like computer screens.

But there is also a genetic component to myopia, which sort of blows your vitamin D/motor oil idea.

http://www.healio.com/optometry/pediatrics/news/online/{2e78b1ab-038e-4997-a1cc-defb99b31287}/researchers-find-no-association-between-vitamin-d-myopia

Secondly, even if we accept your premise, why didn't God just make the eye immune to vitamin D deficiency?

If your semi-silly example about the car engine, if I were God I'd just make a car that didn't need oil. There, I just beat God again in the design business.

An increase in myopia over the past 40 years has, I suppose, nothing to do with less sunlight exposure and a greater tendency to use sunscreen lotion?

How can you know what causes what?

Low serum vitamin D is associated with axial length and risk of myopia in young children

"In this cohort study of young children, we found a significant association between serum 25(OH)D levels, AL and myopia. In this study children with lower serum levels of 25(OH)D had longer AL, and those with higher 25(OH)D had a lower risk of myopia (OR 0.65; 95 % CI 0.46–0.92 per 25 nmol/L). The association remained significant after adjusting for outdoor exposure, indicating that these two closely related determinants may have some overlapping as well as separate effects on the development of myopia. Genetic variants in the vitamin D pathway genes appeared not to be related: although SNPs in the VDR and CYP24A1 genes showed some association with AL and myopia, this did not remain after adjustment for multiple testing."

 

[George-ananda]

Would a view that 'the human eye was designed by an idiot' be more of a heart view than an impartial and dispassionate conclusion of the scientific method ?

I am coming to this discussion late but I have 2 cents on me. I believe in evolution guided by beings that are far beyond us in their type of intelligence but not Omni-everything either. I think Dawkins wants to create this false dichotomy that evolution is either the work of unthinking natural forces or the omniscient God and then ask: Which is it? I see it occurring in a third method; by beings that learn and experiment. Hence the current eye was not designed from scratch as Dawkins implies the God theory has it.

 

[Zosimus]

Eagles and hawks eyes are way better than human eyes. Why did God design some eyes so much better than other eyes?

Yeah eagles can see better, but they cannot smell or taste things. All their brain power is used up in managing the vision. You will be able to see quite well the poisoned food that you eat as it kills you.

 

[Demonslayer]

An increase in myopia over the past 40 years has, I suppose, nothing to do with less sunlight exposure and a greater tendency to use sunscreen lotion?

How can you know what causes what?

What causes what is only significant if we accept the idea that an all powerful master didn't "create" each organ. Otherwise the more things that can go wrong with the organ indicate intentional flaws that God built in. Why create eyes that don't work unless they get enough sunlight? Why not create a perfect eye without so many flaws?

 

[rusra02]

It's not a flaw?

I don't think it is. Those who claim this feature of the eye, (which has little to no impact on vision), is a "flaw" are hard put to explain how their "fix" would improve the eye's functioning. And they certainly haven't proven that it would.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't think it is. Those who claim this feature of the eye, (which has little to no impact on vision), is a "flaw" are hard put to explain how their "fix" would improve the eye's functioning. And they certainly haven't proven that it would.

There's a spot in our eye that we can't see out of. Our brains have to guess what's there and fill in the gap. And that's not a flaw? Wouldn't it be better to actually be able to see what is there?


How about myopia, as well? My 7-year-old nephew has an astigmatism and has had to wear corrective lenses since he was 5. How about that?

 

[Demonslayer]

All their brain power is used up in managing the vision.

Sounds like another design flaw.

 

[Demonslayer]

My 7-year-old nephew has an astigmatism

As do an estimated 80-80% of all human beings. Someone needs to QC God's assembly line.

 

[viole]

I don't think it is. Those who claim this feature of the eye, (which has little to no impact on vision), is a "flaw" are hard put to explain how their "fix" would improve the eye's functioning. And they certainly haven't proven that it would.

It is a flaw. If I put a bug in a SW system, and let another SW system to compensate for it, wouldn't you call it flawed or, at least, suboptimal design?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do wonder how long it will go on that theists often misinterpret how scientists are known for going on about designers or gods, and that it's in no way of a god concept that is comparable to how it's commonly understood by the typical Western theist. A good deal of them readily admit there could be something "greater than" us, but we just don't know, and Richard Dawkins is no different. He just tends to spend more time arguing against religion that speaking of "god" in esoteric ways.
And even though he has said he supposes you could find some signature of a creator if you looked, I don't think he's so much opposed to the idea of some creator as he is the idea of calling it perfect or all knowing, because there are many flaws that just do not seem possible from an all knowing and all powerful god, but at the same time we ourselves make many things that work, but have many flaws about them. It doesn't mean we're not intelligent if a design completely fails, it just means we aren't all knowing or else those flaws wouldn't exist (programmers, coders, and engineers can especially relate).

 

[rusra02]

There's a spot in our eye that we can't see out of. Our brains have to guess what's there and fill in the gap. And that's not a flaw? Wouldn't it be better to actually be able to see what is there?
[/QUOTE

I think I answered that in my previous post.

How about myopia, as well? My 7-year-old nephew has an astigmatism and has had to wear corrective lenses since he was 5. How about that?

The fact that we suffer from diseases of all kinds, including eye disease, is not proof that we are not wonderfully designed and made. It does raise the question of why we are in this sad situation.

 

[Demonslayer]

And even though he has said he supposes you could find some signature of a creator if you looked,

Like a "Made in Heaven" stamp somewhere on our bodies?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think I answered that in my previous post.

And I replied by saying that my "fix" would be to not have a blind spot so that we could actually see everything that is in our field of vision, instead of depending on our brains to guess what's there and fill in the gap.

The fact that we suffer from diseases of all kinds, including eye disease, is not proof that we are not wonderfully designed and made. It does raise the question of why we are in this sad situation.

Blind spots, astigmatism and myopia aren't diseases.

 

[rusra02]

And I replied by saying that my "fix" would be to not have a blind spot so that we could actually see everything that is in our field of vision, instead of depending on our brains to guess what's there and fill in the gap.

Blind spots, astigmatism and myopia aren't diseases.

Fine, call them "defects" if you prefer. They are abnormalities in vision, not including the blind spot, which has no effect on normal vision.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Fine, call them "defects" if you prefer. They are abnormalities in vision, not including the blind spot, which has no effect on normal vision.

Defect = flaw.

 

[Valjean]

I saw a science demo years ago.....let me see if I can cough it back up.....

light penetrates water just so many feet under the surface
fish living near the surface become sensitive to the light above them
mostly for heat

years go by....and....
fish that realize a 'shadow' overhead learn to reflex
they survive

the skin becomes more sensitive and then more pronounced
the 'hemisphere' begins to form to focus the light to more sensitive nerves
the more pronounced the sphere shape.....better focus

years go by.....and....
the lateral reflex brings hemispheres in more than one location
to the left and to the right

years go by....and....
the span of incoming light sharpens to greater clarity

years go by....and....
those with eyes that 'see'......crawl out of the ocean

years go by.......

Not fish. Sight began long before fishes. There are single celled organisms that can detect light.
Here's a pretty interesting overview of the process in <5 minutes:

 

[Demonslayer]

Fine, call them "defects" if you prefer.

Why does God design things with so many defects? The human eye is the Ford Pinto of organs.