Is "salvation" possible under the Law?

[savagewind]

Mat 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mat 24:13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mar 13:13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Jhn 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Act 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Act 11:14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.'

Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I wonder if there might be a common theme running through all of these verses by different authors in different books and letters.
Now it is up to YOU to:

Phl 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Which is just another version of Pascal's Wager. The stakes are high so don't stop at guesses and opinions. Figure it out for yourself. Ask God for help, that hardly seems like an unreasonable request if any of the Bible really is the Truth.

First of all, to assume all those writings are to be taken at face value it to "lean on understanding" something that I learned is the wrong way. Secondly, if you replace the "I, Jesus" with "the way, truth and life", all those are compatable with what I believe in.

For instance, Romans 10:9 - If you declare with your mouth that the way, the truth and the life is to be obeyed and believe in your heart that God raises it over death, you will be saved (if you endure in it - Matthew 24:13).

 

[savagewind]

If you endure with Jesus Christ, the way, the truth and the life you ARE saved. You can quit it then you are NOT saved.

If you ride on any lie at all to believe in IT you are NOT enduring with Jesus Christ and you are not saved imo.

 

[atpollard]

... if you replace the "I, Jesus" with "the way, truth and life" ...

I am reasonable sure that replacing what God says to believe in with something you like better is "idolatry", so good luck with that.
It never worked for Israel.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus- The Truth - Trust in the Lord God with all the heart and on understanding do not lean.

Jesus - The Way - Matthew 5

Jesus - The Life - Matthew 18:11

 

[savagewind]

I am reasonable sure that replacing what God says to believe in with something you like better is "idolatry", so good luck with that.
It never worked for Israel.

Funny! It seems to me you ARE a Bible believer, but you do not know that it is written Jesus IS the way, the truth and the life.
Is Jesus not that, according to you?

 

[savagewind]

@atpollard in all those scriptures you quoted, which part of Jesus fills the bill, according to you?

 

[savagewind]

Maybe you all do not want to believe Jesus is inexorably linked to The Truth because you do not care to clean up your act. Why not remember that they called Jesus of wrong like you all are calling me of wrong and it is written that believers must suffer the same as he did.

Good job! Thanks.

 

[savagewind]

If to believe in Jesus means to be saved what does Matthew 24:13 mean?

 

[atpollard]

Funny! It seems to me you ARE a Bible believer, but you do not know that it is written Jesus IS the way, the truth and the life.
Is Jesus not that, according to you?

Yeah, after your last few posts I am less concerned about you as well. This part of your earlier post just left me concerned that you might be one of those people who view Jesus as an alegorical rather than historical fighure:

I trust I do not have to believe in one flesh and blood man who is said to have done all those things to know the truth that sets me free. If, like you all say, the real man dying is what sets you free, then you are not free imo. You are bound to another person's death forever.

After your last few responses, I see that you meant "way, truth and life" as an AND to the person of Jesus and not an eastern mysticism replacement.

 

[savagewind]

Yeah, after your last few posts I am less concerned about you as well. This part of your earlier post just left me concerned that you might be one of those people who view Jesus as an alegorical rather than historical fighure:

It is my opinion that the Jesus you worship is not a historical figure, but is not allegory either. I think those people really did experience God in their lives and what they wrote, they believed was the truth. What they wrote they believed was "what the spirit says to the ecclesia". It did not all have to happen historically for what is true to be true.

After your last few responses, I see that you meant "way, truth and life" as an AND to the person of Jesus and not an eastern mysticism replacement.

Right. The truth is not an eastern mystical replacement. The man Jesus (there was such a person imo) never did make the truth the truth. The Truth was is and is always true. (That last part is not an opinion.)

 

[atpollard]

@atpollard in all those scriptures you quoted, which part of Jesus fills the bill, according to you?

I am a Calvinist, so I don't spend a lot of time arguing with people to change their beliefs. If you say something that I think might be unbiblical, I will tell you so and point to enough scripture to back up that I am not making this up. However, only God (the Holy Spirit) was able to change my heart and cure my spiritual blindness, so I have no reason to believe that your salvation is any less a matter between you and God.

I just answer questions to the best of my ability and challenge false claims when I have the time and urge. There is little point in engaging in a debate on soteriology here.

 

[savagewind]

@atpollard do you believe that it is alright to trust in something which is not true (real according to God The Savior) if you believe that it is true?

 

[savagewind]

I am a Calvinist, so I don't spend a lot of time arguing with people to change their beliefs. If you say something that I think might be unbiblical, I will tell you so and point to enough scripture to back up that I am not making this up. However, only God (the Holy Spirit) was able to change my heart and cure my spiritual blindness, so I have no reason to believe that your salvation is any less a matter between you and God.

I just answer questions to the best of my ability and challenge false claims when I have the time and urge. There is little point in engaging in a debate on soteriology here.

I like the first part, but then you call my opinion "false". but this

I just answer questions to the best of my ability and challenge false claims when I have the time and urge.

is ALL mixed up. You can not call my ideas false according to your "best ability". Heads up! You are human. The way which would be right, I think, is to say you challenge what you believe to be false claims. Because saying I am wrong and also saying my salvation is between God and myself (which I believe in) is me believing in a lie which has to mean not saved.

Or do you discredit every scripture which says so? I might not have enough time right now to post them.
One is: you MUST BE perfect as your Heaven Father is perfect. Is that not true, according to you?

 

[atpollard]

It is my opinion that the Jesus you worship is not a historical figure, but is not allegory either. I think those people really did experience God in their lives and what they wrote, they believed was the truth. What they wrote they believed was "what the spirit says to the ecclesia". It did not all have to happen historically for what is true to be true.

You and I have very different definitions of Truth.
The Jesus I worship is the Jesus revealed in the 66 books of the Bible. Promised in Genesis, literally walking the Earth in the Gospels, working through his Body (the Church) in the Letters, and triumphant in Revelation. I did not always believe but came to believe based upon empirical evidence of the work of God in the lives of Christians and I came to accept that Jesus was THE GOD through a 'Damascus' experience. So for me the Truth of the Bible is as real and absolute as any other physical reality or mathematical law. Truth is Truth because it is absolute Truth, not something they believed that did not historically happen.

Sorry, but I believe that a dead man got up and walked and thousands of people saw it and it changed their life and they were prepared to die rather than say that it didn't happen.
I choose to stand with them.

God Bless.

 

[atpollard]

I like the first part, but then you call my opinion "false". but this is ALL mixed up. You can not call my ideas false according to your "best ability". Heads up! You are human. The way which would be right, I think, is to say you challenge what you believe to be false claims. Because saying I am wrong and also saying my salvation is between God and myself (which I believe in) is me believing in a lie which has to mean not saved.

Or do you discredit every scripture which says so? I might not have enough time right now to post them.
One is: you MUST BE perfect as your Heaven Father is perfect. Is that not true, according to you?

You just want to argue and I have no more time to spare.
Thank you for your concern.

 

[roger1440]

rofl.
Was the pun intended?
Yes, I got the 'memo' and THAT is how I know what He said.

Now how do we know the 'memo' is true? That becomes the question.

(Technically, he rose from the dead, so he WAS dead, but now he LIVES ... at least according to the 'memo').

Are you telling me a 2000 year old dead guy talked to you?

 

[savagewind]

Are you telling me a 2000 year old dead guy talked to you?

Hi @Roger. If you understood what pun, will you please share it? I don't get it.

 

[savagewind]

You just want to argue and I have no more time to spare.

It is assuming a lot that you think I want to, but even if I did want to, I think it is what the forum is for. Isn't it? My husband says forums are for the people who want to tell us what they think they know is the absolute truth, but I don't believe him.

Thank you for your concern.

You're welcome

 

[roger1440]

Hi @Roger. If you understood what pun, will you please share it? I don't get it.

Long story short, the church is not founded in words in old dusty books. It's founded on a personal revelation.

 

[savagewind]

Long story short, the church is not founded in words in old dusty books. It's founded on a personal revelation.

Well, I guess I do not know the real meaning of the word pun.