Is Satan Evil?

[Eddi]

Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.

As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm starting to see the world as always in two parties. Perhaps that's what nature intended. Besides the American political system, we've got things in place like laws which afford debt collectors to harrass people owing debt for years, yet also laws to protect those people in some circumstances and some methods of escape. We've also got light and darkness, day and night, beauty and vice versa, strength and weakness.

 

[ajay0]

As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, Satan is also known as Ravan or Maya, and is considered to originate in body-consciousness (distinct from soul-consciousness), and manifesting in vices such as lust, hatred, greed, inordinate attachments, egoism.

The Brahmakumaris distinguish between soul consciousness and body consciousness.

What is Soul Consciousness? | Inspired Stillness | Brahma Kumaris

Soul Consciousness and Body Consciousness

Soul consciousness is derived from experiencing the self as the soul, having understood its definition. I am a point of incorporeal conscient light. The essential elements of my own self are purity, peace, love, power and bliss to the fullest extent. Recognising that the self is this, practising to be like this, evokes the experience of being just this. Using the mind to envision the self as light, immortal and ultra-subtle enables the self to experience itself.

Body consciousness is the endless whirling of the mind from one thought to another, associated or disconnected thought. You identify yourself as your body, seeing your persona in comparison with others. Perceiving yourself to be greater than or less that the other. Negative emotions fuel your inner landscape yet you use a variety of tactics to avoid feeling your feelings. You find yourself constructing plausible masks, which you refine or replace when their luster dims. You find reasonable justifications for your weak actions. ~ Jyoti Agarwal, Prajapita Brahmakumaris

 

[Eddi]

I'm starting to see the world as always in two parties. Perhaps that's what nature intended. Besides the American political party, we've got things in place like laws which afford debt collectors to harrass people owing debt for years, yet also laws to protect those people in some circumstances and some methods of escape. We've also got light and darkness, day and night, beauty and vice versa, strength and weakness.

Yes

I believe humans are wired to understand the world in terms of dichotomies

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Yes

I believe humans are wired to understand the world in terms of dichotomies

Right, so I see such in terms of God/Satan too.

I can't picture what Christianity would look like if they did away with the devil concept in every part of what they've ever built / followed. Maybe it'd look like the New Age movement.

 

[Tambourine]

I'm starting to see the world as always in two parties. Perhaps that's what nature intended. Besides the American political system, we've got things in place like laws which afford debt collectors to harrass people owing debt for years, yet also laws to protect those people in some circumstances and some methods of escape. We've also got light and darkness, day and night, beauty and vice versa, strength and weakness.

It's called Dualism and all of it is man-made.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Many people think Satan is evil…/...

.../It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God./...

.../Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.

Dear Eddi

I love the way people, despite very different reasoning, so often reach such similar conclusions - All roads lead to Rome!

I, myself, refrain from using the term ”satan” (it distracts negatively from what I attempt to express). Instead, I think of it like this: at all times one must choose between living by the Will of God and living by the Will of Ego.

By the former, I (not the knower of all things; just a regular person) mean expanding existential and spiritual understanding, selflessness, humility, etc. By the latter, I (same little being) mean expanding personal growth, wealth, influence, prosperity and so forth.

My goal is to live my life by the Will of God, but on a daily basis I “sin” (choose the Will of Ego) - mainly because I’m human and not Jesus.

It is not necessarily so that the Will of Ego is evil, but ...let us put it this way: where your fellow man is not against you, but merely striking you down for himself and his; the Will of God is not in the driver’s seat.

The Will of Ego wants and needs much, but its appetite stems from fear and self-interest in worldliness.

I must go now. But thanks for an exciting OP!

Humbly
Hermit

 

[LightofTruth]

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Those two verses are speaking of the same thing. Can you see it?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.

As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.

Have you seen my thread about Satan, here:
Whose your Daddy? Dan?

 

[Eddi]

Have you seen my thread about Satan, here:
Whose your Daddy? Dan?

No, I haven't

But I will go look at it now

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

No, I haven't

But I will go look at it now

Thank you very much! Please let me know what you think!

 

[ChristineM]

Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.

As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.

I look at it by what i read in the bible.

Kill count

God 2,000,000 (2 million) plus

Satan 10

No contest, of course the one with the least kill count must be evil, so many Christians tell me so.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I look at it by what i read in the bible.

Kill count

God 2,000,000 (2 million) plus

Satan 10

No contest, of course the one with the least kill count must be evil, so many Christians tell me so.

Who were the 10 killed by Satan?

 

[ChristineM]

Who were the 10 killed by Satan?

Sorry, i dont have their names and addresses but the 7 sons and 3 daughter's of Job.

And that was a bet with god so is he entirely responsible for them?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Sorry, i dont have their names and addresses but the 7 sons and 3 daughter's of Job.

And that was a bet with god so is he entirely responsible for them?

Oh, I'm going to check:

12“Very well,” said the LORD to Satan. “Everything he has is in your hands, but you must not lay a hand on the man himself.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.13 One day, while Job’s sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 14a messenger came and reported to Job: “While the oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15the Sabeans swooped down and took them away. They put the servants to the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”16While he was still speaking, another messenger came and reported: “The fire of God fell from heaven. It burned and consumed the sheep and the servants, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”17While he was still speaking, another messenger came and reported: “The Chaldeans formed three bands, raided the camels, and took them away. They put the servants to the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”18While he was still speaking, another messenger came and reported: “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on the young people and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”20Then Job stood up, tore his robe, and shaved his head. He fell to the ground and worshiped, 21saying:
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will return.
The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away.
Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
22In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing.
4“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give up all he owns in exchange for his life. 5But stretch out Your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse You to Your face.”6“Very well,” said the LORD to Satan. “He is in your hands, but you must spare his life.”7So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and infected Job with terrible boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. 8And Job took a piece of broken pottery to scrape himself as he sat among the ashes.9Then Job’s wife said to him, “Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God and die!”10“You speak as a foolish woman speaks,” he told her. “Should we accept from God only good and not adversity?”
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.11
1After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. 2And this is what he said:3“May the day of my birth perish,
and the night it was said,
‘A boy is conceived.’4If only that day had turned to darkness!
1Then Job replied:2“If only my grief could be weighed
and placed with my calamity on the scales.3For then it would outweigh the sand of the seas—
no wonder my words have been rash.4For the arrows of the Almighty have pierced me;
my spirit drinks in their poison;
the terrors of God are arrayed against me.


________________________

Looks like Job is giving God the credit for those things, not Satan, and looks like Satan is being credited for all bad things (like this), not God, so it looks like God and Satan's Kill Count is Identical mainly.

 

[Goddess Kit]

When referencing Christian Mythology, Satan is designated as the antagonist. How the reader decides to subjectively interpret the work of fiction, however, that is on the individual.

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, I'm going to check:

12“Very well,” said the LORD to Satan. “Everything he has is in your hands, but you must not lay a hand on the man himself.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.13 One day, while Job’s sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 14a messenger came and reported to Job: “While the oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15the Sabeans swooped down and took them away. They put the servants to the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”16While he was still speaking, another messenger came and reported: “The fire of God fell from heaven. It burned and consumed the sheep and the servants, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”17While he was still speaking, another messenger came and reported: “The Chaldeans formed three bands, raided the camels, and took them away. They put the servants to the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”18While he was still speaking, another messenger came and reported: “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on the young people and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you!”20Then Job stood up, tore his robe, and shaved his head. He fell to the ground and worshiped, 21saying:
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will return.
The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away.
Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
22In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing.
4“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give up all he owns in exchange for his life. 5But stretch out Your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse You to Your face.”6“Very well,” said the LORD to Satan. “He is in your hands, but you must spare his life.”7So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and infected Job with terrible boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. 8And Job took a piece of broken pottery to scrape himself as he sat among the ashes.9Then Job’s wife said to him, “Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God and die!”10“You speak as a foolish woman speaks,” he told her. “Should we accept from God only good and not adversity?”
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.11
1After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. 2And this is what he said:3“May the day of my birth perish,
and the night it was said,
‘A boy is conceived.’4If only that day had turned to darkness!
1Then Job replied:2“If only my grief could be weighed
and placed with my calamity on the scales.3For then it would outweigh the sand of the seas—
no wonder my words have been rash.4For the arrows of the Almighty have pierced me;
my spirit drinks in their poison;
the terrors of God are arrayed against me.


________________________

Looks like Job is giving God the credit for those things, not Satan, and looks like Satan is being credited for all bad things (like this), not God, so it looks like God and Satan's Kill Count is Identical mainly.

I really dont think satan drowned the population of the world and zapped all people in sodom and gomorrah

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I really dont think satan drowned the population of the world and zapped all people in sodom and gomorrah

According to the ideas presented in Job, it appears that "God sends Evil Spirits" to do all sorts of destruction, so that these things attributed to God by Job were said to be the work of Satan who seemed to be put in charge of calamities and stuff, which is how many people even today still view Satan, as the representation of Evil and Calamity, similar to Ahriman, except in the Bible, God is the one sending out these forces of evil and destruction and is not opposed to them or in combat with them as Ahura Mazda is depicted in combat with Ahriman.

So the reason their kill count is identical seems to be that all these calamities are being attributed to Satan as God's agent of destruction and harm.

In my thread, I also show other examples where God and Satan seem to be credited with the same things, so that some people (like Job) call it "God" and others write "Satan" or "Evil Spirit" as sent by God.

Whose your Daddy? Dan?

So for those who subscribe to the belief that Satan is God's agent of destruction, the kill count becomes "All Kills and Calamities Ever", and for those who subscribe to the belief that God should only be considered responsible (blaming the Boss who commanded the soldier), God would be credited with all of it.

There are also those who believe that Satan alone should be credited, and that "God doesn't want the calamities" which is a view which the Bible doesn't really seem to support, but seems to be the view or opinion of the Zoroastrians and many Christians today even, these are people who might also credit Satan with all Calamities, I've heard them say it directly as well, that "God didn't do that, Satan did that" about illnesses and storms and death stuff. They might support this idea with the statements in the New Testament, even the Old Testament, but their denial of God's credit and involvement is where support becomes difficult, except that they insist upon God being "omnibenevolent" and never responsible for any harm, harming being what Satan does (the quotes I provide though show this is not the Biblical view throughout all the scriptures).

 

[Rival]

Not within Judaism, Satan is not evil, no.

 

[ChristineM]

According to the ideas presented in Job, it appears that "God sends Evil Spirits" to do all sorts of destruction, so that these things attributed to God by Job were said to be the work of Satan who seemed to be put in charge of calamities and stuff, which is how many people even today still view Satan, as the representation of Evil and Calamity, similar to Ahriman, except in the Bible, God is the one sending out these forces of evil and destruction and is not opposed to them or in combat with them as Ahura Mazda is depicted in combat with Ahriman.

So the reason their kill count is identical seems to be that all these calamities are being attributed to Satan as God's agent of destruction and harm.

In my thread, I also show other examples where God and Satan seem to be credited with the same things, so that some people (like Job) call it "God" and others write "Satan" or "Evil Spirit" as sent by God.

Whose your Daddy? Dan?

So for those who subscribe to the belief that Satan is God's agent of destruction, the kill count becomes "All Kills and Calamities Ever", and for those who subscribe to the belief that God should only be considered responsible (blaming the Boss who commanded the soldier), God would be credited with all of it.

There are also those who believe that Satan alone should be credited, and that "God doesn't want the calamities" which is a view which the Bible doesn't really seem to support, but seems to be the view or opinion of the Zoroastrians and many Christians today even, these are people who might also credit Satan with all Calamities, I've heard them say it directly as well, that "God didn't do that, Satan did that" about illnesses and storms and death stuff. They might support this idea with the statements in the New Testament, even the Old Testament, but their denial of God's credit and involvement is where support becomes difficult, except that they insist upon God being "omnibenevolent" and never responsible for any harm, harming being what Satan does (the quotes I provide though show this is not the Biblical view throughout all the scriptures).

Interpretation is a wonderful thing. I have seen very few christians say god is also responsible for the bad stuff