Is Satan Evil?

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, i have been shown plenty of opinion, there is a difference.

Of course you'll say that.

 

[ChristineM]

I wouldn't mind some transcripts yeah, if you find some! I think the aspect he might have liked about Catholicism was anything militant. He seemed to also have a lot of hope in Science and that it might overtake religion and mythology as the New Dominant Imposition upon the minds of people, which he was all for apparently.

If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians. For in these spheres the community of the people of National Socialist Germany has accomplished a prodigious work.

Speech by Adolf Hitler to the Old Guard at Munich 24 February 1939



And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.
Speech delivered at Stuttgart 15 February 1933


The Government of the Reich, which regards Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attaches the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See, and is endeavouring to develop them.

Reichstag Berlin 23 March 1933



My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.”

 

[ChristineM]

Of course you'll say that.

Provide contemporary evidence, i.e. that not composed after the 1980s when revisionists history came into vogue so as to make people feel better

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Provide contemporary evidence, i.e. that not composed after the 1980s when revisionists history came into vogue so as to make people feel better

You've been presented with enough evidence over the months. What do you think modern scholarship is based on? The available evidence, which we have more of now than in the past. I find your request to be very anti-scientific. It's like using the writings of Charles Darwin as your only evidence for evolutionary theory. Sure, it'll work but we've discovered tons more since then.

If you are genuinely curious about this, I suggest starting with the book Hitler's Religion by Richard Weikart. He goes over all the arguments for the different positions and presents the primary sources. He does not say that Hitler was an atheist, either.

 

[ChristineM]

I don't see how. I was a Catholic and used to attend an Episcopal parish. It was striking how similar the liturgy was to the Mass. Ironically, the Anglicans still had some traditional features that the Catholics don't now, like altar rails and kneeling for Communion. No, the Novus Ordo Mass is very different from an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

Perhaps europe is a little different than america

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Amrr



Perhaps europe is a little different than america

That is definitely possible.

 

[ChristineM]

That is definitely possible.

I literally live across the village square to a Catholic church, having been raised CofE (anglican) i can guarantee that (at least) local Catholicism has more in common with orthodoxy than i ever saw as a kid

 

[gurudavid]

Scripture is naturally going to be interpreted differently by people who do not operate on the same wave lengths. What I find most interesting, however, is a people who will believe without the proper evidence available. To be logical in every aspect of life except that of religious belief, it's almost comical. It's almost as though the believers are asking to be ridiculed.

First, show me the evidence that god exists. Then we can properly discuss matters in relation to how these religious laws should be governing our lives.

In my view; Religion is something that can exist without the belief in a God. As I have seen religion it can provide people with a way of Government and Governance when effective Government and Governance are missing or not working well.

Like all means of Government and Governance they are subject to corrruption and Religion is no exception to this. Religion has always been a route to power and control and it is easy to miss the many benefits that it has given to people and to societies.

I think today that we are in challenging times and that many people have lost sight of purpose, quality of life and simple rules around behaviours.

How do you bring these back when Chaos is increasing and the distractions are also increasing?

God does not need to exist for people to get along.

 

[Brian2]

Scripture is naturally going to be interpreted differently by people who do not operate on the same wave lengths. What I find most interesting, however, is a people who will believe without the proper evidence available. To be logical in every aspect of life except that of religious belief, it's almost comical. It's almost as though the believers are asking to be ridiculed.

First, show me the evidence that god exists. Then we can properly discuss matters in relation to how these religious laws should be governing our lives.

What is the proper evidence that I should have before believing in a God?

 

[Brian2]

Yeah, probably, since something that is truly good doesn't create harm or harmful scenarios where harm will be brought about. Nothing we can do about it though, there is no other God but the Cancer God.

Nothing we can do about it though, true. I just look for the spin on things which puts God in a good light, but in the end we all end up with questions we cannot answer and need to put in the too hard basket.

 

[Brian2]

The marmot is the origin of the black death

Does that include the immortal jellyfish?

A creator who intentionally creates his creations to suffer is evil, yes.

Suffering is a normal part of life for all creatures and usually has a purpose.

 

[ChristineM]

Suffering is a normal part of life for all creatures and usually has a purpose.

Yes, to suffer. Cool purpose you excuse the abrahamic god for.

What purpose has childhood leukaemia? What purpose has prostate cancer, in fact, any cancer

 

[Brian2]

Yes, to suffer. Cool purpose you excuse the abrahamic god for.

What purpose has childhood leukaemia? What purpose has prostate cancer, in fact, any cancer

Why do we die? Why all the suffering involved and grief? Why do the innocent suffer and die?
I don't know all the answers.
It seems that God did not intend it but knew it would happen. God made a world outside of paradise that involved suffering and death. The end is supposed to make it all worthwhile and even be so good that this suffering will be forgotten.
Maybe it is intended to bring people to the hope for something better.
Isa 53 tells us that Jesus was despised and rejected and acquainted with sorrow. He was an innocent who suffered for us. I believe that God was willing to go through that for us but I cannot answer all the whys of our suffering and His.
Is it that God is evil? Is it that God does not exist? Is it that God is good and we know so little that the best thing to do is to trust Him?
That is something each of us decides.

 

[ChristineM]

Why do we die? Why all the suffering involved and grief? Why do the innocent suffer and die?
I don't know all the answers.
It seems that God did not intend it but knew it would happen. God made a world outside of paradise that involved suffering and death. The end is supposed to make it all worthwhile and even be so good that this suffering will be forgotten.
Maybe it is intended to bring people to the hope for something better.
Isa 53 tells us that Jesus was despised and rejected and acquainted with sorrow. He was an innocent who suffered for us. I believe that God was willing to go through that for us but I cannot answer all the whys of our suffering and His.
Is it that God is evil? Is it that God does not exist? Is it that God is good and we know so little that the best thing to do is to trust Him?
That is something each of us decides.

Trust the one who, it is written, killed not only the human race but just about every living thing on this planet except a good buddy and the buddies family???

Trust the one who, it is written, created evil then punishes those who commit evil.

I could go into other reasons but a few i have mentioned and i don't really have the time for an extremely long list.

You are free to excuse and trust in your belief but its not for me.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.

As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.

I disagree. I believe that Satan is evil and he hates all of us and desires nothing but our suffering.

I believe that Satan did not simply challenge God but conspired to supplant Him and that he was willing to hurt anyone and everyone in his effort to do so.

There is no contest or war between God and Satan.

Satan was cast out but otherwise free so he decided to inflict and torment Man.