No, he wasn't. Pretty much no reputable Third Reich scholar believes such a thing now. But I'm not getting into this with you again as we've been on that merry go-round multiple times.
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Is Satan Evil?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
What evidence would suffice and what are you expecting God to be?
Goddess Kit
Active Member
You know how we can determine a tree is a tree, and that all people can agree on a tree being a tree? That kind of evidence.
As to what I expect a god to be, how would I know? None has ever existed, and all we have to go on are the imaginings of men.
Tell that to the Vatican
Tell that to hitler wo considered himself christian
Goddess Kit
Active Member
There still remains a distinct divide between what is known as Catholicism and what is known as Christianity.
Consider the vulgate (Catholic version of the bible) is the oldest surviving version dated from just 80 years after the original bible was compiled. Perhaps Catholicism is closer to original christianity than any other of the competing 50,000 or so different sects of christianity, each claiming their version on christianity is true.
Christianity is very divided indeed
Here are some funny quotes, but people don't believe bad guys are being sincere:
Adolf Hitler Quotes About Christianity | A-Z Quotes
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion [Islam] too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
"We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people."
"The national government...will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality."
"I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted."
"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."
"As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic Church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service."
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."
"The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy ... proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism."
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew."
"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
"We wish to fill our culture once more with the spirit of Christianity - but not only in theory."
"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery."
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine."
"In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and of adders."
"Only in the Roman Empire and in Spain under Arab domination has culture been a potent factor. Under the Arab, the standard attained was wholly admirable; to Spain flocked the greatest scientists, thinkers, astronomers, and mathematicians of the world, and side by side there flourished a spirit of sweet human tolerance and a sense of purist chivalry. Then with the advent of Christianity, came the barbarians."
"It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund."
"This pride of race is a quality which the German, fundamentally, does not possess. The reason for this is that for these last three centuries the country has been torn by internal dissension and religious wars and has been subjected to a variety of foreign influences, to the influence, for example, of Christianity-for Christianity is not a natural religion for the Germans, but a religion that has been imported and which strikes no responsive chord in their hearts and is foreign to the inherent genius of the race. (13th February 1945)"
"Christianity [is] a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature."
"...feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders."
"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine."
"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition."
"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."
"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble."
"The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession."
"If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians. For in these spheres the community of the people of National Socialist Germany has accomplished a prodigious work."
"The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them."
"If, in the course of a thousand or two thousand years, science arrives at the necessity of renewing its points of view, that will not mean that science is a liar. Science cannot lie, for it's always striving, according to the momentary state of knowledge, to deduce what is true. When it makes a mistake, it does so in good faith. It's Christianity that's the liar. It's in perpetual conflict with itself."
"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity."
"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges : the pox and Christianity."
"I realise that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors - but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch, in the next 200 years, will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. My regret will have been that I could not behold its demise."
"Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it's the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries. The only thing that would be still worse would be victory for the Jew through Bolshevism. If Bolshevism triumphed, mankind would lose the gift of laughter and joy. It would become merely a shapeless mass, doomed to grayness and despair."
"I am sure that the Japanese, the Chinese and the peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France, in spite of the fact that we are related by blood (...)"
"Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified. Once the Jewish poison had been eradicated, unification would have been an easy matter. France and Italy, each defeated in turn at an interval of a few months by the two Germanic Powers, would have been well out of it. Both would have had to renounce their inappropriate aspirations to greatness. At the same time they would have had to renounce their pretensions in North Africa and the Near East; and that would have allowed Europe to pursue a bold policy of friendship towards Islam."
Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia
Adolf Hitler Quotes About Christianity | A-Z Quotes
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion [Islam] too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
"We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people."
"The national government...will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality."
"I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted."
"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."
"As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic Church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service."
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."
"The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy ... proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism."
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew."
"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
"We wish to fill our culture once more with the spirit of Christianity - but not only in theory."
"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery."
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine."
"In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and of adders."
"Only in the Roman Empire and in Spain under Arab domination has culture been a potent factor. Under the Arab, the standard attained was wholly admirable; to Spain flocked the greatest scientists, thinkers, astronomers, and mathematicians of the world, and side by side there flourished a spirit of sweet human tolerance and a sense of purist chivalry. Then with the advent of Christianity, came the barbarians."
"It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund."
"This pride of race is a quality which the German, fundamentally, does not possess. The reason for this is that for these last three centuries the country has been torn by internal dissension and religious wars and has been subjected to a variety of foreign influences, to the influence, for example, of Christianity-for Christianity is not a natural religion for the Germans, but a religion that has been imported and which strikes no responsive chord in their hearts and is foreign to the inherent genius of the race. (13th February 1945)"
"Christianity [is] a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature."
"...feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders."
"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine."
"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition."
"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."
"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble."
"The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession."
"If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians. For in these spheres the community of the people of National Socialist Germany has accomplished a prodigious work."
"The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them."
"If, in the course of a thousand or two thousand years, science arrives at the necessity of renewing its points of view, that will not mean that science is a liar. Science cannot lie, for it's always striving, according to the momentary state of knowledge, to deduce what is true. When it makes a mistake, it does so in good faith. It's Christianity that's the liar. It's in perpetual conflict with itself."
"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity."
"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges : the pox and Christianity."
"I realise that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors - but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch, in the next 200 years, will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. My regret will have been that I could not behold its demise."
"Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it's the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries. The only thing that would be still worse would be victory for the Jew through Bolshevism. If Bolshevism triumphed, mankind would lose the gift of laughter and joy. It would become merely a shapeless mass, doomed to grayness and despair."
"I am sure that the Japanese, the Chinese and the peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France, in spite of the fact that we are related by blood (...)"
"Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified. Once the Jewish poison had been eradicated, unification would have been an easy matter. France and Italy, each defeated in turn at an interval of a few months by the two Germanic Powers, would have been well out of it. Both would have had to renounce their inappropriate aspirations to greatness. At the same time they would have had to renounce their pretensions in North Africa and the Near East; and that would have allowed Europe to pursue a bold policy of friendship towards Islam."
Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia
Part 2
Napoleon (a similar, relatively modern, European conqueror who eventually lost):
Napoleon’s Personal Feelings about Religion · LIBERTY, EQUALITY, FRATERNITY: EXPLORING THE FRENCH REVOUTION
Napoleon Bonaparte’s Religion and Political Views
French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte’s Islam | Fiqh Council
Voltaire, Rousseau and Napoleon on Prophet Muhammad ﷺ - iHistory
"
These are what he said (From Genuine Islam. Singapore; October 1936):
“I read the Bible; Moses was an able man, the Jews are villains, cowardly and cruel. Is there anything more horrible than the story of Lot and his daughters ?”
“The science which proves to us that the earth is not the centre of the celestial movements has struck a great blow at religion. Joshua stops the sun ! One shall see the stars falling into the sea… I say that of all the suns and planets,…”
Then Napoleon Bonaparte also said:
“Religions are always based on miracles, on such things than nobody listens to like Trinity. Yesus called himself the son of God and he was a descendant of David. I prefer the religion of Muhammad. It has less ridiculous things than ours; the turks also call us idolaters.”
Then:
“Surely, I have told you on different occations and I have intimated to you by various discourses that I am a Unitarian Musselman and I glorify the prophet Muhammad and that I love the Musselmans.”
In the end, he said:
“In the name of God the Merciful, the Compassionate. There is no god but God, He has no son and He reigns without a partner.”"
Napoleon is Muslim
Another World Villain who seemed fond of Islam:
Backstory Berke Khan: The Mongol who Stood for Islam | Muslim Memo
"
To legitimize his conquests, Timur relied on Islamic symbols and language, referred to himself as the "Sword of Islam". He was a patron of educational and religious institutions. He converted nearly all the Borjigin leaders to Islam during his lifetime. Timur decisively defeated the Christian Knights Hospitaller at the Siege of Smyrna, styling himself a ghazi.[9]:91 By the end of his reign, Timur had gained complete control over all the remnants of the Chagatai Khanate, the Ilkhanate, and the Golden Horde, and even attempted to restore the Yuan dynasty in China.
Timur's armies were inclusively multi-ethnic and were feared throughout Asia, Africa, and Europe,[9] sizable parts of which his campaigns laid to waste.[20] Scholars estimate that his military campaigns caused the deaths of 17 million people, amounting to about 5% of the world population at the time.[21][22] Of all the areas he conquered, Khwarazm suffered the most from his expeditions, as it rose several times against him.[23]
Timur was the grandfather of the Timurid sultan, astronomer and mathematician Ulugh Beg, who ruled Central Asia from 1411 to 1449, and the great-great-great-grandfather of Babur (1483–1530), founder of the Mughal Empire, which then ruled almost all of the Indian subcontinent.[24][25]"
Voltaire:
“The Koran teaches fear, hatred, contempt for others, murder as a legitimate means for the dissemination and preservation of this satanic doctrine, it talks ill of women, classifies people into classes, calls for blood and ever more blood. Yet, that a camel trader sparks uproar in his tribe, that he wants to make his fellow citizens believe that he talked to the archangel Gabriel; that he boasted about being taken up into heaven and receiving a part of that indigestible book there, which can shake common sense on every page, that to gain respect for this work, he covers his country with fire and iron, that he strangles fathers, drags away daughters, that he leaves the beaten a free choice between death and his faith: now this is certainly something that no-one can excuse, unless he came as a Turk into the world, unless superstition has stifled any natural light of reason in him. ”
Voltaire (1694-1788) Translation by SIMONXML from “ISLAM – Dem Untergang geweiht” by Thomas K. Luther, p.24.
Napoleon (a similar, relatively modern, European conqueror who eventually lost):
Napoleon’s Personal Feelings about Religion · LIBERTY, EQUALITY, FRATERNITY: EXPLORING THE FRENCH REVOUTION
Napoleon Bonaparte’s Religion and Political Views
French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte’s Islam | Fiqh Council
Voltaire, Rousseau and Napoleon on Prophet Muhammad ﷺ - iHistory
"
These are what he said (From Genuine Islam. Singapore; October 1936):
“I read the Bible; Moses was an able man, the Jews are villains, cowardly and cruel. Is there anything more horrible than the story of Lot and his daughters ?”
“The science which proves to us that the earth is not the centre of the celestial movements has struck a great blow at religion. Joshua stops the sun ! One shall see the stars falling into the sea… I say that of all the suns and planets,…”
Then Napoleon Bonaparte also said:
“Religions are always based on miracles, on such things than nobody listens to like Trinity. Yesus called himself the son of God and he was a descendant of David. I prefer the religion of Muhammad. It has less ridiculous things than ours; the turks also call us idolaters.”
Then:
“Surely, I have told you on different occations and I have intimated to you by various discourses that I am a Unitarian Musselman and I glorify the prophet Muhammad and that I love the Musselmans.”
In the end, he said:
“In the name of God the Merciful, the Compassionate. There is no god but God, He has no son and He reigns without a partner.”"
Napoleon is Muslim
Another World Villain who seemed fond of Islam:
Backstory Berke Khan: The Mongol who Stood for Islam | Muslim Memo
"
To legitimize his conquests, Timur relied on Islamic symbols and language, referred to himself as the "Sword of Islam". He was a patron of educational and religious institutions. He converted nearly all the Borjigin leaders to Islam during his lifetime. Timur decisively defeated the Christian Knights Hospitaller at the Siege of Smyrna, styling himself a ghazi.[9]:91 By the end of his reign, Timur had gained complete control over all the remnants of the Chagatai Khanate, the Ilkhanate, and the Golden Horde, and even attempted to restore the Yuan dynasty in China.
Timur's armies were inclusively multi-ethnic and were feared throughout Asia, Africa, and Europe,[9] sizable parts of which his campaigns laid to waste.[20] Scholars estimate that his military campaigns caused the deaths of 17 million people, amounting to about 5% of the world population at the time.[21][22] Of all the areas he conquered, Khwarazm suffered the most from his expeditions, as it rose several times against him.[23]
Timur was the grandfather of the Timurid sultan, astronomer and mathematician Ulugh Beg, who ruled Central Asia from 1411 to 1449, and the great-great-great-grandfather of Babur (1483–1530), founder of the Mughal Empire, which then ruled almost all of the Indian subcontinent.[24][25]"
Voltaire:
“The Koran teaches fear, hatred, contempt for others, murder as a legitimate means for the dissemination and preservation of this satanic doctrine, it talks ill of women, classifies people into classes, calls for blood and ever more blood. Yet, that a camel trader sparks uproar in his tribe, that he wants to make his fellow citizens believe that he talked to the archangel Gabriel; that he boasted about being taken up into heaven and receiving a part of that indigestible book there, which can shake common sense on every page, that to gain respect for this work, he covers his country with fire and iron, that he strangles fathers, drags away daughters, that he leaves the beaten a free choice between death and his faith: now this is certainly something that no-one can excuse, unless he came as a Turk into the world, unless superstition has stifled any natural light of reason in him. ”
Voltaire (1694-1788) Translation by SIMONXML from “ISLAM – Dem Untergang geweiht” by Thomas K. Luther, p.24.
The Vatican doesn't count as they go by baptismal records. Do you really believe there's over a billion practicing Catholics in the world? There most certainly isn't. They get that number by counting baptisms. Many millions of those people (including me) don't practice Catholicism or don't believe in it, but we will always be counted as members of the Church because we were baptized into it. There's no way to remove yourself from the baptismal rolls. Non-practicing Catholics are referred as lapsed Catholics, not ex-Catholics and that's the reason why.
We know that Hitler's early attempts to paint himself as a Christian were for propaganda purposes and that he expressed a loathing of Christianity to his fellow higher ups in the Party multiple times. He appears to have been a sort of pantheist or a vague deist, if he truly had any beliefs in the divine. Either way, he believed that mainstream was ridiculous and that science would triumph over them.
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Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy have done much better at perserving ancient Christian traditions than Roman Catholicism has. The Catholic Novus Ordo Mass implemented after Vatican II is very Protestant-like. It is almost indistinguishable from the Anglican liturgy (the Latin Mass is far different). Modern Catholic Bible translations are much like Protestant translations now, too.
It's sad that many Westerners don't even seem to realize that Orthodoxy is a thing. Westerners are extremely ignorant about religion. It's rather disturbing.
Goddess Kit
Active Member
Abstractly, yet not realistically.
Yes, realistically. What you're saying makes no sense. Obviously it's a Christian church.
Goebbels was another baptized Catholic who hated Christianity but decided not to formally renounce it in public to not upset the populace. They were pragmatic about the religion question for the sake of the war effort but planned to finish their struggle against Christianity after the war was won.
I really dont care if he practiced or not, although the evidence shows he did on occasion. And whether he did or didn't practice, who is it who should judge?
And his own word counts for quite a lot. And he quite often spoke of his his faith, do you want transcripts?
I have never seen contemporary evidence to show he was not Catholic. Only that he was a fanatic for his country
But of course after the fact, when the subject is dead and cannot defend himself people can say whatever they want about him.
You've been shown plenty of evidence over the months that people with argued with you over this issue, you just choose to ignore it, I suppose for your own personal reasons. The truth is that Hitler said and did things in public that contradict his words and actions behind closed doors. Why do you think that is? Should be an obvious answer.
Christianity is the thing, no matter what the flavour. And most Catholic services and mores i have seen bare far morw of a resemblance to orthodoxy than any anglican attempt i have ever seen.
I wouldn't mind some transcripts yeah, if you find some! I think the aspect he might have liked about Catholicism was anything militant. He seemed to also have a lot of hope in Science and that it might overtake religion and mythology as the New Dominant Imposition upon the minds of people, which he was all for apparently.
I don't see how. I was a Catholic and used to attend an Episcopal parish. It was striking how similar the liturgy was to the Mass. Ironically, the Anglicans still had some traditional features that the Catholics don't now, like altar rails and kneeling for Communion. No, the Novus Ordo Mass is very different from an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.