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Is Satan Evil?

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Ancient Gods didn't work this way and I think it's far better to understand that ancient Gods were more limited in power and jurisdiction.

Not according to the bible, the abrahamic god created all, but christianity will not accept that includes the bad bits.

Not my view though



Well, if we're legit honest, Jesus does a few magic shows and then nothing of any substance gets done.

Again according to a book compiled 350 years after his death. Not my view but my view is not the subject of this thread
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
And since Satan isn't in that story and the serpent was actually telling the truth, that makes the NT the liar.

I would expect more from a cosmic being than being as petty and as powerless as a human judge's sentences reveal.

In Job, Satan is bringing to light the worst in God, as God knew there was no good reason to smite Job and his family and with the barest of pushes, did so willingly and on multiple occasions.

Can the two be equated since we vaporized children who most definitely weren't doing anything wrong?

I mean, I'm all for deleting bad guys from the face of the earth, but nuking cities and vaporizing innocent people isn't that.

I see the literary character of Yahweh (as opposed to any real deity) to be like a certain US politician who thinks he's in control of everything and takes responsibility for nothing, LOL. He constantly messes up but is so convinced of His superiority that it never occurs to Him that He's actually a moron and shouldn't be allowed to dress Himself.

:p


Ancient Gods didn't work this way and I think it's far better to understand that ancient Gods were more limited in power and jurisdiction.

Well, if we're legit honest, Jesus does a few magic shows and then nothing of any substance gets done.

What authority did Adam have? He named some animals. That was his day. "Oh, look, I'm a-callin' that one a penguin. Time for a nap!"

Well, it'd be surely emotionally cathartic and would prevent him from doing anything else, but it can leave power vacuums and while he definitely deserved to get wiped out (and we'll nuke Japanese kids but not German bad guys), our lack of knowledge or caring about consequences tends to create more problems (see: Saddam and just about every other dictator we've set up).

Jesus is full of it here. God doesn't get to disown His kids when they act up. He either created all or He didn't.

If God created everything, everything in the known universe at least are siblings in Creation, right?

I'm as much a child of God as Jesus is or a rock or a kleenex or ...

"Don't say you have Abraham for your father because God can make children of Abraham out of rocks" -- John the Baptist (and he has a point)

John and Paul seem to have issues with monotheism and its consequences.

And ordered by Yahweh in many cases.


Time is precious and neither of us should waste it.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Leukemia is a disease, humans don't (or didn't back then) make disease.

So you say god isn't omni everything then
God gave man authority. Man gave it to the Devil and the ground was cursed because of it. Cause and effect - a spiritual law but not by God's fault but rather by man not exercising proper authority.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
God gave man authority. Man gave it to the Devil and the ground was cursed because of it. Cause and effect - a spiritual law but not by God's fault but rather by man not exercising proper authority.


So you prefer a genocidist, directly responsible for over 2 million deaths as opposed to an angel responsible for 10 deaths and only at the goading of god... Ok, your choice.


I mention again, omni everything? Do you realise the implications of such?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.


As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.
Scientists are in cahoots with Covid19. In fact Covid19 is not bad at all. Scientists are using it for a good purpose. This is obvious, because they are not getting rid of it. In fact, the number of deaths prove this, and the fact that no vaccine has yet been produced to bring the people relief from the deadly virus.
This sounds quite reasonable to me.

The above is an illustration.
It illustrates how we can create some interesting stories based on reasoning that may seem logical to us, but given careful consideration of, and having a reasonable approach to the facts, we can find the truth.

If we consider these facts, for example...
1) Because scientists have not yet been able to defeat the virus, does not mean they like it, or want it around, or are working in co with it. 2) They have started taking measures against it. 3) Some things take time. They don't happen at the snap of a finger, like magic we see on TV. For example, we don't see a building finished in a millisecond. It's progressive.

Comparatively, 1) the fact that Satan is still around, does not mean that God likes him around, or is working in co with him, etc. 2) God has taken action - put in place measures to remove the Devil permanently. These measures were put in place some years after the fall of man, because man is needed for this project to be completed. Genesis 3:15. 3) It will take some time to bring all things to a finish, and God does not feel rushed, nor is he delaying except from man's standpoint, because as Almighty, God can, and will undo any damages or loss accumulated during the working out of his purpose. (Ephesians 1:8-14)

When this "project" is completed, man will be completely delivered, and there will never again be a repeat.
The seemingly slow operation is to ensure that. It is to be complete - final.

#1
Is the Corona Virus deadly? Yes, of course. It is not a friend of mankind, but an enemy. It destroys the body's important dependencies.
Is Satan evil? Why, yes, of course. The Bible says of him... "That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)
Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, (Hebrews 2:14)
Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone. (1 Peter 5:8)
The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil. (1 John 3:8)

There we have it. The Bible is clear - against many opinion - The Devil is evil. He seek to destroy lives, and he uses lies to do so. He has the means to cause death.

#2
Do we have the details of why Covid19 has proved to be so formidable? To a great extent, the scientists tell us.
Do we have details on how, and why the devil was cast out of heaven? Certainly!
Again, the Bible give the clear answer.
Revelations 12:7-12 tells us how swiftly he came down - like lightning. he put up a fight, but he lost, and he and his hoards had a swift eviction. Good riddance. The angels in heaven rejoiced exceedingly
Jesus saw this, ahead of time - (Luke 10:18) . . .I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven.

Why was Satan cast out of heaven?
It is one of the progressive steps in the "project". It is progressing nicely - allowing people in the meantime to choose if the are on the side of God's sovereignty, or if they side with Satan.
That's going nicely too, because those who choose Satan's side, are deciding that they want to Join Adam, and return to the dust, without any hope of life.

#3
Killing is not against God's commandment. Murder is. There is a difference.
God kills, or terminates those deserving of death, as he wills.
It's like a garbage collector, getting rid of garbage in order to keep the place clean.
Unlike humans, who pollute the earth, and heavens, God does not make a place to store those he determines unfit to live.

God is more powerful than anyone yes,
However, as said above, he has a very organized and controlled way of doing thing. This shows his superlative wisdom.
He is against the Devil, and will crush him, just as a person will crush a bug they hate.
(Romans 16:20) . . .the God who gives peace will crush Satan . . .

Yes. We have heard Satan's side of the story.
That's why all the apostles could relate it... as well as Jesus. 1 John 5:19

What is a very significant fact about the Devil, which the Bible highlights, is that the Devil has his ministers here on earth - not angels, but men. These do Satan's works of misleading others, by pretending to represent Christianity, in order to create confusion, to turn people away from Christ. this is an evil, that clearly shows how connected these ones are to their father Satan.

How sad for them, that they choose the side of the wicked one - choosing death really.
I think that shows that Satan does not even care about his imps, but somehow they are convinced that Satan is good. :(

(2 Corinthians 11:3) But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.
 
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In the Baha'i View "Satan" is not a super natural entity at war with God but rather a mere symbol of man's lower nature.

The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm…. God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.

Abdu’l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294–295.

That doesn't match up too well with the statements of the Qur'an, which are supposedly the "Authenticated Word of God" to the Bahai (even though they seem to happily ignore the Qur'an regularly as outdated and not worthy of attention or interest).

The Qur'an says that Iblis, who seems to be called Satan, is a being known as a jinn, which are made of "smokeless fire" (plasma, which is ionized gas) just like humans are said to be made of clay (carbon matter), and that these jinn or plasma life-forms are sentient beings like humans and animals and speak to and live in the world, and are not immortal, except that Iblis was granted his request or prayer for an ongoing lifespan which he is using to plot all sorts of plots.

I've personally encountered these big gaseous things, and they aren't invisible or magical, you can see them, you can talk to them, they can talk to you, they are entirely real, and are physical, not from some other dimension or anything weird or wacky, they are just made of plasma rather than carbon (and plasma lifeforms are a valid thing that Science has admitted to being possible, but they don't know about these yet, even though stories about them have existed since the beginning and many people have encountered and dealt with them regularly).

If you want to see what they look like, here is one:

They look like Casper sometimes, and move like that or in a sort of wavy snakelike fashion, which is why perhaps they had been associated to snakes as well.


In the second video, you can see them in heat vision, they are at the timestamp 20:00 minutes into the video or something, and it shows the heat vision and the tracks also, but these things may seem unbelievable if you haven't seen or dealt with them up close and in person or touched them even.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.


As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.


You are right to question all those stories of religion. They never seem to add up, do they? Religion does not understand God at all and satan does not even exist.

One of the petty things mankind values is Blame. They had to create the idea of satan in order to have someone to Blame. Satan made them make all their bad choices in life. They could not have made those bad choices on their own.

The road to perfection takes learning from bad choices. No one gets there without them. I can't wait until my next great Screwup. It's going to be Glorious!! On the other hand, look how smart I will become when I learn what not to do.

In reality, if satan did exist, he would be a child of God. God will leave no child behind. All the children are on a quest to Discover the best choices. Intelligence will see all those other choices are no longer viable choices one could make.

Labeling anyone as Evil is no more than an excuse to hate. If they lack the knowledge, place that knowledge around them so it will be there when they are ready to Discover it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.

The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.


As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.
Your intuition is on to something. I think it is helpful to think of Satan as “of this world”. In other words, Satan represents disconnection from God. Think of a very powerful person who has forgotten all of his socialization, has an incredible memory for threat, constantly adapts, and is attracted to chaos. While I would agree that Satan was not created to do evil, plenty of evil has been done in his name.

The reality is that Satan stands between us and God. If we pretend like he doesn’t exist, then he will play the role of God. If we avoid him, then we remain apart from God. If we try to fight him, then he will deceive us into destroying life and serving his desire for more chaos. The way through Satan is to eat his forbidden fruit, become more conscious, invite him in, feign allegiance, and then defy and tame him.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So you prefer a genocidist, directly responsible for over 2 million deaths as opposed to an angel responsible for 10 deaths and only at the goading of god... Ok, your choice.


I mention again, omni everything? Do you realise the implications of such?

Again, I understand where you are coming from as you relate it to your paradigm of beliefs. With 1 billion and 600 thousands abortions for no real reason vs deaths that had a reason, I wouldn't call God genocidal but rather mankind being genocidal.

200,000 people died in just two bombs in Japan. With your view you would see it as genocidal, but with my view I would call it the saving of mankind's future.

It is obvious that we view omni differently so I don't share your implications. I view God as love but love sometimes requires the death of some (like when we stopped Germany in WWII)

But you are right... your choice.
 

arthra

Baha'i
That doesn't match up too well with the statements of the Qur'an, which are supposedly the "Authenticated Word of God" to the Bahai (even though they seem to happily ignore the Qur'an regularly as outdated and not worthy of attention or interest).
Yes nonetheless I'm providing you with the Baha'i view and the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha. There's also the concept of progressive revelation and the harmony between science and religion which are Baha'i principles:

"All that which ye potentially possess can, however, be manifested only as a result of your own volition. Your own acts testify to this truth. … Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend?"

Baha’u’llah, Gleanings From the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 149-150.

"God provides for all. Is it befitting for us to prevent the flow of His merciful provisions for mankind? God has created all in His image and likeness. Shall we manifest hatred for His creatures and servants? This would be contrary to the will of God and according to the will of Satan, by which we mean the natural inclinations of the lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan -- the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside."

- ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 286-287
 
Yes nonetheless I'm providing you with the Baha'i view and the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha. There's also the concept of progressive revelation and the harmony between science and religion which are Baha'i principles:

"All that which ye potentially possess can, however, be manifested only as a result of your own volition. Your own acts testify to this truth. … Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend?"

Baha’u’llah, Gleanings From the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 149-150.

"God provides for all. Is it befitting for us to prevent the flow of His merciful provisions for mankind? God has created all in His image and likeness. Shall we manifest hatred for His creatures and servants? This would be contrary to the will of God and according to the will of Satan, by which we mean the natural inclinations of the lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan -- the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside."

- ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 286-287

Thank you, much appreciated!
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
And some people consider childhood leukaemia bad, if the abrahamic god crested life on earth them he created leukaemia and other cancers, the mosquito, the marmot

The marmot?
Yes of course God created leukemia and other cancers, etc etc.
He also created us vulnerable and mortal along with all life forms on earth.
This is something that ends one day, but not at the moment.
Does it mean that God is evil?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Many people think Satan is evil…

Is he though?

Is he really?

We don’t know the details of how he got chucked out of heaven…

Indeed we’ve only heard God’s side of the story

And it doesn’t follow that just because God is (supposedly) good then his adversary must be evil

Also, I think that in the bible God has killed more people than Satan ever did

And killing is against his own commandments - he obviously does not follow what he preaches, law-givers should obey the rules they make. But then perhaps God had to kill loads of people to establish his rule? I don’t know. Unless of course the events in which God killed people never truly happened? For instance I very much doubt the great flood (that would have killed millions of people) ever happened…

God is clearly more powerful than Satan - God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and Satan is none of these, he is a mere fallen angel. And history is written by those who are the most powerful.


The relationship between God and Satan is supposed to be adversarial, they relate to each other as adversaries, not as enemies. If they were enemies then I’m sure God would have annihilated Satan long ago. If they are adversaries that means they are on the same side but working against each other. Like two people playing a friendly game of chess. A game of chess shouldn't be a fight to the death. It is about check-,mating the other player, not annihilating them. I don’t think God would do this with Satan were Satan actually evil. I think he'd have destroyed him, to stop evil.

Also, God wants us to worship him. That’s not nice. I see God as being like a parent and parents don’t require their children to worship them! Celebrate and praise, yes. But grovel and prostrate, no. That’s not healthy.

As a Christian I love God and want to live according to his will. I believe God is good, regardless of how he is said to have behaved in the Old Testament. But when it comes to Satan, I just don’t see him as evil. I think that he works for God and because of the role he plays people consider him evil, in contrast with God.

Satan is the opposition, yes. But he is not evil.

It is not about good verse evil, it is about obeying God verses not obeying God.


As a Christian I must be wary of his influence and work to glorify God whilst resisting Satan’s temptations. I think Satan wants to lead me away from God but that he does so because that's what God wants him to do, not because he is evil

Basically: What “evil” stuff has he ever done (in the bible) except challenge God?

Also: Satan got chucked out of Heaven for challenging God. But casting him out of heaven didn’t stop him challenging! Therefore, God has not defeated Satan, which implies they are not at war - if he wanted to defeat Satan then I’m sure he could very easily. It looks as though God wants Satan to be active, tempting people away from God, so as to make following God a struggle, to test our faith

Conclusion: God and Satan are on the same team and work together, with God pulling us towards himself and Satan pulling us away from God, perhaps as a kind of test?

That's what I think anyway.

At that time, abstract thought was not developed yet so concepts as ego would have been impossible to convey, therefore an imaginary mythical monster called satan was used to convey the dual nature within us to turn to good or evil, evil being depicted as satan.

The fact that we are told not to be misled by satan indicates it is a process within us that we can control that is being referred to here. Similarly, by scientific definition, darkness does not exist but is the absence of light.

Now we are in modern times, we no longer require such analogies to understand that we have both a higher spiritual self and a lower self which caters for our base instincts. If we allow our lower base self or ego to control our lives and live only for greed and selfish purposes then we become as a satan, but if we follow a virtuous life and serve and help others, we become angelic or as an angel. It’s all very symbolical.


Many passages in the Holy Bible are symbolical or in the form of parables. Verses like ‘let the dead bury their dead’ make this point very strongly, that if we only read the Bible literally, we shall fall into superstition and ignorance.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Again, I understand where you are coming from as you relate it to your paradigm of beliefs. With 1 billion and 600 thousands abortions for no real reason vs deaths that had a reason, I wouldn't call God genocidal but rather mankind being genocidal.

200,000 people died in just two bombs in Japan. With your view you would see it as genocidal, but with my view I would call it the saving of mankind's future.

It is obvious that we view omni differently so I don't share your implications. I view God as love but love sometimes requires the death of some (like when we stopped Germany in WWII)

But you are right... your choice.


Do you believe in Noah flood. The killing of every human and most other life on an entire planet is, i consider, to be genocide, you may call it that you will.

Between 10 and 15% (that number has improved vastly over recent years) of pregnancies end in mismiscarriage. If you believe god made humans then that makes god the most prolific abortionist ever.

The bombings in japan were reprehensible and the result of war and politics but are estimated to have saved up to 10 million lives by shortening ww2 by several years. However you excuse nuclear bombing, the killing of 200,000 people is stoll genocide.

Well i view omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent as per the dictionary definitions and seeing as you mentioned Germany, Hitler was a christian acting as he believed was right in gods view.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The marmot?
Yes of course God created leukemia and other cancers, etc etc.
He also created us vulnerable and mortal along with all life forms on earth.
This is something that ends one day, but not at the moment.
Does it mean that God is evil?


The marmot is the origin of the black death

Does that include the immortal jellyfish?

A creator who intentionally creates his creations to suffer is evil, yes.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
To Christians, he is, but not in my interpretation. But I don't believe in a dualistic universe. In the LHP, Satan is beyond good and evil.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Do you believe in Noah flood. The killing of every human and most other life on an entire planet is, i consider, to be genocide, you may call it that you will.

Every thought was evil... the end would have been the end of all humanity and you wouldn't be here today iif God hadn't intervened... you wouldn't

Between 10 and 15% (that number has improved vastly over recent years) of pregnancies end in mismiscarriage. If you believe god made humans then that makes god the most prolific abortionist ever.

Swallowing an elephant while you look at the gnat.

The bombings in japan were reprehensible and the result of war and politics but are estimated to have saved up to 10 million lives by shortening ww2 by several years. .

EXACTLY! Now you can understand why God did some things.

Well i view omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent as per the dictionary definitions and seeing as you mentioned Germany, Hitler was a christian acting as he believed was right in gods view.

Yes... man's definition with no real application within the context of scripture.
 
The marmot?
Yes of course God created leukemia and other cancers, etc etc.
He also created us vulnerable and mortal along with all life forms on earth.
This is something that ends one day, but not at the moment.
Does it mean that God is evil?
Yeah, probably, since something that is truly good doesn't create harm or harmful scenarios where harm will be brought about. Nothing we can do about it though, there is no other God but the Cancer God.
 

Goddess Kit

Active Member
Scripture is naturally going to be interpreted differently by people who do not operate on the same wave lengths. What I find most interesting, however, is a people who will believe without the proper evidence available. To be logical in every aspect of life except that of religious belief, it's almost comical. It's almost as though the believers are asking to be ridiculed.

First, show me the evidence that god exists. Then we can properly discuss matters in relation to how these religious laws should be governing our lives.
 
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