Is Satan Ruling the World?

[Yadon]

If you understood Christianity you'd understand how worshipping oneself is the same as worshipping the devil, the world or idols.

Don't be patronizing, I've been nothing but polite.

Why do you have a right as a Christian to define what constitutes another religion? How would you feel if a Satanist or Muslim or Hindu tried to tell you what Christianity is?

Satanism can be many things but it doesn't become Satanism until a person decides they wish to use that label, usually with the associated symbolism.

My first mentor ever (back when I was in college) was a Satanist and he didn't worship himself, the world, or idols. He simply sought to emulate the values he saw Satan representing (the protection of individuality, creativity, skepticism, questioning authority and fighting injustice, inequality and corruption, standing up for the impoverished and disenfranchised, the free access of knowledge, personal liberty, being strong and having a sense of perservence, ect).

He didn't have faith through worship but rather his faith was through his ACTIONS. What you have to understand is that "Satan" is just Hebrew for opposition or accuser and that it was at times used for angels submissive to Yahweh. At least for my mentor, he saw himself as being the "opposition" or resistance to a corrupt society.. He saw himself as on the side good for society at large and was very politically active.

 

[Thana]

Why do you have a right as a Christian to define what constitutes another religion? How would you feel if a Satanist or Muslim or Hindu tried to tell you what Christianity is?

Satanism can be many things but it doesn't become Satanism until a person decides they wish to use that label, usually with the associated symbolism.

My first mentor ever (back when I was in college) was a Satanist and he didn't worship himself, the world, or idols. He simply sought to emulate the values he saw Satan representing (the protection of individuality, creativity, skepticism, questioning authority and fighting injustice, inequality and corruption, standing up for the impoverished and disenfranchised, the free access of knowledge, personal liberty, being strong and having a sense of perservence, ect).

He didn't have faith through worship but rather his faith was through his ACTIONS. What you have to understand is that "Satan" is just Hebrew for opposition or accuser and that it was at times used for angels submissive to Yahweh. At least for my mentor, he saw himself as being the "opposition" or resistance to a corrupt society.. He saw himself as on the side good for society at large and was very politically active.

That's why, Before, I said 'To me'

Of course I don't speak for all Christians.
However, The bible backs up my last post.

I was talking about worship, Not actions.
Half your reply is irrelevant.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

If we are made in Gods images, and became like Gods after eating from the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil...why are we not deserving to worship ourselves?

 

[Thana]

If we are made in Gods images, and became like Gods after eating from the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil...why are we not deserving to worship ourselves?

Our spirit is made in His image, Not our flesh.

And I don't know how or why you'd think we've become Gods...
I'd say we're less than a spec of sand compared to God.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Our spirit is made in His image, Not our flesh.

And I don't know how or why you'd think we've become Gods...
I'd say we're less than a spec of sand compared to God.

To be fair the bible does say we have "become like gods".

 

[Yadon]

That's why, Before, I said 'To me'

How you personally decide to define people in boxes doesn't determine what boxes they actually associate with. It's all arbitrary to begin with so why force your box when they got their own to play in?

Of course I don't speak for all Christians.

Nor does the Bible, which has been shown to have errors.

However, The bible backs up my last post.

No it doesn't.

I was talking about worship, Not actions.

You defined another religion by worship, I showed that it can and should be defined bt action and values. This may be a shock but worship is meaningless, only one's actions count in the real world.

Half your reply is irrelevant.

You made charges on another religion, and so I went to give an example of how it's not how you perceive it with a real world example.

Our spirit is made in His image, Not our flesh

He made our flesh. If he is omnipotent he made everything, including sin and evil and your devil.

And I don't know how or why you'd think we've become Gods...

Because that is what it said in Genesis. To "become like gods" was to know the difference between good and evil and loose one's naivety. Since then, assuming one believes the mythos, we have grown not from faith in Yahweh but form progress in building up our civilizations and society to a better standard of living through technology for most of it's history, which has vastly improved thanks to Science in the last few centuries. One can predict that if we can keep progressing at this rate that within a few hundred (probably less) years we could have the capability of immortality or to entirely regulate the earth and colonize our entire solar system and perhaps beyond. That is in some sense being gods.

I'd say we're less than a spec of sand compared to God.

You actually say something I agree with! We are nothing to the Cosmos for the Cosmos is too vast for the atom on it's back. It just does it's thing. We only care about our well being due to evolution, evolution that god never had. Such a being would have no need or capacity for pain, love, suffering, fear or sorrow. It just is, and it eternally is. It just flows, and flows. Doing it's thing as it does it.

 

[Thana]

No it doesn't.

Yes, It does.

You defined another religion by worship, I showed that it can and should be defined bt action and values. This may be a shock but worship is meaningless, only one's actions count in the real world.

I always enjoy debate with misinformed and bias people.

You actually say something I agree with!

Wow, I feel so privileged.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Our spirit is made in His image, Not our flesh.

And I don't know how or why you'd think we've become Gods...
I'd say we're less than a spec of sand compared to God.

Our spirit or the breath that makes man a living soul is what man is. The flesh dichotomy only became a thing after Paul started pushing that forward. As for why we are like God? Did you not read why Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden? Speck of dirt compared to God? I could never understand the self-deprecation some Christians put themselves through. There's a difference between calling yourself worthless and being humble.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Oh, were you that guy outside Cinema 21 I gave a hard time about that?

I don't think we had a Cinema 21, but I would have been a small kid. I wouldn't have been able to carry a sign. :help:

 

[Sees]

Our spirit or the breath that makes man a living soul is what man is. The flesh dichotomy only became a thing after Paul started pushing that forward. As for why we are like God? Did you not read why Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden? Speck of dirt compared to God? I could never understand the self-deprecation some Christians put themselves through. There's a difference between calling yourself worthless and being humble.

Paul seems to have been a former Platonist who decided to use the Jesus character to start his own special tradition.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Luke 4:5,6 says:"he [the Devil] brought him [Jesus] up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish." This seems to show the Devil controls the governments. Do you think the Devil controls the world? Why or why not?

Originally I suggested that this encounter was similar to Jacob's wresting with the angel, after which Jacob becomes Israel (possibly means 'God will prevail' -- Robert Alter comments) The being whom Jacob wrestled with is not explained and does not fit any particular mold. Usually it is thought that Jacob wrestled with himself. Jesus was tempted with power over all of the kingdoms, possibly throughout all of time. He who was the Logos did not think to use his power to his own advantage during the fight, but instead he behaved as a servant. He wrestled against temptation, perhaps against temptation within himself, perhaps temptation against an outside person.

 

[nazz]

I don't think we had a Cinema 21, but I would have been a small kid. I wouldn't have been able to carry a sign. :help:

Yeah, I was just joking. But I did get into an argument with a guy when exited the theater. He was there to protest it. I thought it was an awesomely good film.

 

[DawudTalut]

Luke 4:5,6 says:"he [the Devil] brought him [Jesus] up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish." This seems to show the Devil controls the governments. Do you think the Devil controls the world? Why or why not?

Peace be on you.
Holy Quran says:
[17:62] And (remember the time) when We said to the angels, ‘Submit to Adam,’ and they (all) submitted, except Iblis. He said, ‘Shall I submit to one whom Thou hast created of clay?’

[17:63] (And) he said, ‘What thinkest Thou? Can this whom Thou hast honoured above me be (my superior)? If Thou wilt grant me respite till the Day of Resurrection, I will most surely bring his descendants under my sway except a few.’

[17:64] He said, ‘Begone! and whoso shall follow thee from among them, Hell shall surely be the recompense of you all — an ample recompense.

[17:65] ‘And entice whomsoever of them thou canst, with thy voice, and urge against them thy horsemen and thy footmen and be their partner in wealth, and children, and make promises to them.’ And Satan promises them naught but deceit.

[17:66] (As to) My servants, thou shalt certainly have no power over them, and sufficient is thy Lord as a Guardian.

Ref: alislam.org/quran

In verse 62 word 'Iblis' is used, it is attribute of Satan, means hopeless. Verses explain that when God sends His Messenger, hopeless evil people stand against him, they do their best, they play Satan, God give them some time but they can never overcome true sevants of God. It happened throught the the history of religion. Thus Satan has no real power. Those who let them prey, only they fall.

Presence of few criminals does not mean that a country does not have a government.

Satan is sort of catalyst.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In verse 62 word 'Iblis' is used, it is attribute of Satan, means hopeless. Verses explain that when God sends His Messenger, hopeless evil people stand against him, they do their best, they play Satan, God give them some time but they can never overcome true sevants of God. It happened throught the the history of religion. Thus Satan has no real power. Those who let them prey, only they fall.

Thanks. I have a hard question on a slightly tangentially related topic, the translation of 'Devil' in the NT. I'm asking you, because you seem to know some things.

'Iblis' means hopeless and is Arabic, right?. 'Ha Satan' means adversary and is from Hebrew, from which we say 'Satan'. 'Devil' can be translated several ways and is Greek, and my question is about the translation of 'Devil' in early muslim commentary. (NT English translated from Greek Koine language). As I understand it, 'Devil' in the NT can mean someone who accuses or seeks to accuse, or it can refer to the Greek conception of demons, or it might mean other things such as madness or illness. Commentary on it is sometimes hard to find. The early Arabic scholars studied all kind of languages. Do you know if they left commentary upon this difficult word 'Devil' in the NT letters?

 

[WALL]

Yeah, satan runs the world. You can read in the old testament how things will be when Jesus runs things

 

[DawudTalut]

Thanks. I have a hard question on a slightly tangentially related topic, the translation of 'Devil' in the NT. I'm asking you, because you seem to know some things.

'Iblis' means hopeless and is Arabic, right?. 'Ha Satan' means adversary and is from Hebrew, from which we say 'Satan'. 'Devil' can be translated several ways and is Greek, and my question is about the translation of 'Devil' in early muslim commentary. (NT English translated from Greek Koine language). As I understand it, 'Devil' in the NT can mean someone who accuses or seeks to accuse, or it can refer to the Greek conception of demons, or it might mean other things such as madness or illness. Commentary on it is sometimes hard to find. The early Arabic scholars studied all kind of languages. Do you know if they left commentary upon this difficult word 'Devil' in the NT letters?

Peace be on you.
It is difficult to know whether they left any commentary about NT letters. But here are some findings which may help you to see in their perspective.

Peace be on you.
SHATAN
In Arabic, two possible roots of word ‘Satan’ are ‘Shatana’ and ‘Shata’.
-- If ‘Shatana’ is taken as root, then the word ‘Shatan’ means:
1--The being who is away from Truth and causes others go away from Truth.
2--The being who always thinks about mischieves and is committed to stand against Truth.

-- If ‘Shata’ is taken as root, then ‘Shatan’ means:
3-‘The being which is destroyed due to jealousy, prejudice and anger.

There are some more meanings of ‘Shatan’ i.e.
4-- Rebellious, the one who crosses limits; maybe from common people or hidden people or animal.
5—Small snake.
6—Evil Spirit.
7—The one who dives in water in depth.

IBLIS
It is derived from ‘Ablasa’ …. Following meanings follow.
1-The being who is hopeless from mercy of God.
2-The being, from whom, the expectation of goodness is very little.
3-The being who is wondering what to do?
4-The being who is filled with sadness.




Commentary: ‘Shatan’ is being who is away from Truth or who progresses in evil…. ‘Iblis’ is the one who is hopeless…….God has made ‘Shatan / Iblis’ as a being which is to test human. It is a negative force which is against the positive force of Angels. Their representatives / shadows work in the physical world.

The Angels are first ring in the chain of working of universe by God. They start movement of commandments of God into physical world. Those who obey are righteous and those who do not obey and resist they accept negative effect of Iblis. In the story of Adam, there was main Shatan and its representatives.

Human is made is do virtues. They should disregard evil temptations at choice. That earns them blessings.


[Based on Commentary of Holy Quran by Second Ahmadiyya Muslims Khalifah (r.a.).]

You may want to read some commentaries here at https://www.alislam.org/quran/

[According to Ahmadiyya Muslim understanding, Jesus peace be on him, survived from cross, migrated to meet lost sheep, and went to Kashmir through Iran, Afghanistan, detailed evidences in alislam.org]

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Here are some helping links which may be from your religion:
A History Of The Devil And Satan In Old Testament Times
Definition of the Devil

Good wishes.