Is Spirituality a Crutch?

[RestlessSoul]

Being sensible is a crutch.
That's amazing.

As opposed to insensible?

 

[1213]

...Some say that the weak hold onto it...

But can you show a human that is not weak?

 

[SalixIncendium]

If one wants to consider spirituality a crutch, then one should also consider science a crutch as well. Both are useful tools intended to aid one in understanding the nature of one's existence and to explain what one is experiencing.

I consider neither a crutch and both a means of gaining knowledge and understanding. As I see it, neither should be discarded in favor of the other. I think those that do so are limiting their potential for this knowledge and understanding.

 

[SalixIncendium]

But can you show a human that is not weak?

I can. I can show you many.

But being raised in Catholic household, I do understand how one could be indoctrinated into thinking every human is somehow defective.

 

[Audie]

As opposed to insensible?

I'd say so, yes.
The proposal that freedom is a crutch is just that.

Most people are religious, believe in some god.
Superstition, as I see it.
Denial of reality on every level.
Definitely insensible.

"Secular" refers to being free of that "crutch".
Tho I'd say it's a stumbling block, intellectually.


The humanism bit flows organically from that
realization about the "supernatrural".

And, I guess, seeking freedom from the bonds of
moldy traditions based off the religious world views.

If someone can concoct that into a worldview w
crutch, well, I will let them be tiresome w/o
me.

 

[PureX]

I think that presuming to know things that we can't know is the real crutch. Hoping that God exists or hoping that God doesn't exist is alright so long as it helps our experience of life, and we don't go blindly presuming that we're smarter than we are.

Because that presumption has often proven to be dangerous, and sometimes even fatal. Not to mention that the more we presume ourselves to be smarter than we are, the more foolish we show ourselves to actually be.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'd say so, yes.
The proposal that freedom is a crutch is just that.

Most people are religious, believe in some god.
Superstition, as I see it.
Denial of reality on every level.
Definitely insensible.

"Secular" refers to being free of that "crutch".
Tho I'd say it's a stumbling block, intellectually.


The humanism bit flows organically from that
realization about the "supernatrural".

And, I guess, seeking freedom from the bonds of
moldy traditions based off the religious world views.

If someone can concoct that into a worldview w
crutch, well, I will let them be tiresome w/o
me.

You understand that "spiritual" and "religious" are not synonyms, yes?

Not all spiritual people (or religious people, for that matter) believe in "some god."

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'd say so, yes.
The proposal that freedom is a crutch is just that.

Most people are religious, believe in some god.
Superstition, as I see it.
Denial of reality on every level.
Definitely insensible.

"Secular" refers to being free of that "crutch".
Tho I'd say it's a stumbling block, intellectually.


The humanism bit flows organically from that
realization about the "supernatrural".

And, I guess, seeking freedom from the bonds of
moldy traditions based off the religious world views.

If someone can concoct that into a worldview w
crutch, well, I will let them be tiresome w/o
me.

And how are you enjoying your freedom? Are you happier, do you think, than your superstitious fellows with their mouldy traditions and their crutches?

 

[Audie]

And how are you enjoying your freedom? Are you happier, do you think, than your superstitious fellows with their mouldy traditions and their crutches?

I could have, I suppose, after "Intelllectually"
not deleted as too obvious my next comment,
that mileage varies.

If you have a comment on my post, go for it.
If you wish to make inquiries about my personal
life, you won't have much success.

 

[mangalavara]

But can you show a human that is not weak?

Yes. Mr. T would be a great example.

 

[Augustus]

Yes. Mr. T would be a great example.

I pity the fool who sees spirituality as a crutch…

 

[Debater Slayer]

I’ve heard it said before that spirituality is a crutch. Some say that the weak hold onto it whereas the strong don’t require it. Do any of you think crutch is a good metaphor for spirituality?

A crutch is a device used for support when one is incapable of walking on one’s two feet. When you see a person with a broken leg using a crutch, do you think their life would be better if they were to toss away the crutch and try walking the way everybody else walks? If spirituality is, metaphorically speaking, a crutch, the person holding onto their spirituality is obviously broken and must really need it.

Not all spiritual individuals are people with metaphorical fractures though. Many are best described as seekers. In their case, spirituality is not a crutch. Maybe it’s a vehicle, a road, or both?

What are your thoughts?

[Note: I started this thread because a similar one that I tried to reply to had vanished. Much of what I’ve written here was originally for a reply.]

Spirituality is no more a crutch than atheism is an "excuse to do what one wants."

I think it's much more reasonable to try to understand why different and diverse people hold different and diverse beliefs than it is to pigeonhole their worldviews or attribute them to any one of numerous negative assumptions about character and intellectual integrity.

 

[Audie]

I pity the fool who sees spirituality as a crutch…

Like how only pitiable fools do t believe in
God. I read about that.
But its spirituality too!
Whatever "spirituality" is supposed
to mean.

 

[mangalavara]

Like how only pitiable fools do t believe in
God. I read about that.
But its spirituality too!
Whatever "spirituality" is supposed
to mean.

In this thread, when I mentioned a famous American known as Mr. T, @Augustus wrote a reply beginning with the phrase ‘I pity the fool.’ In the US, Mr. T is associated with that phrase. When people—in reference to Mr. T—use that phrase in a sentence (example: ‘I pity the fool who doesn’t own a sponge’.), they are doing it for comedic effect. So, Augustus did not seriously mean that anybody is a pitiable fool.

Additionally, Augustus did not literally say that a pitiable fool does not believe in spirituality. What he mentioned was the idea that spirituality is a crutch, which is an ableist metaphor. This is nothing about how he esteems one for not involving oneself in spirituality, which is indeed something that is not clearly defined.

 

[Audie]

In this thread, when I mentioned a famous American known as Mr. T, @Augustus wrote a reply beginning with the phrase ‘I pity the fool.’ In the US, Mr. T is associated with that phrase. When people—in reference to Mr. T—use that phrase in a sentence (example: ‘I pity the fool who doesn’t own a sponge’.), they are doing it for comedic effect. So, Augustus did not seriously mean that anybody is a pitiable fool.

Additionally, Augustus did not literally say that a pitiable fool does not believe in spirituality. What he mentioned was the idea that spirituality is a crutch, which is an ableist metaphor. This is nothing about how he esteems one for not involving oneself in spirituality, which is indeed something that is not clearly defined.

Ah. A cultural reference.

But some of us get so much of the real
thing there's little humour in an imitation.

 

[mangalavara]

Ah. A cultural reference.

You said it so much better than I could!

But some of us get so much of the real
thing there's little humour in an imitation.

I understand what you mean. Due to this type of thing, I tend to be careful with how I speak about others regarding anything.

 

[Augustus]

Like how only pitiable fools do t believe in
God. I read aboutthat.
But its spirituality too!
Whatever "spirituality" is supposed
to mean.

It was obviously a joke. Just Google “pity the fool” if you don’t get the reference.

 

[Rival]

It was obviously a joke. Just Google “pity the fool” if you don’t get the reference.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Do any of you think crutch is a good metaphor for spirituality?

I used a similar metaphor. Once I started a thread. I asked: If religion is a placebo, what is the real remedy?

I presumed that the need to fill the existential void, or what Frankl called the will to find meaning in life, is a general human driving force in life. Is this a weakness? I wouldn't say so. It's a need. It can be satisfied with religion or something else that works.

 

[1213]

I can. I can show you many.

But being raised in Catholic household, I do understand how one could be indoctrinated into thinking every human is somehow defective.

No one has told me it, I think so, because all people are weak. For example, if you would not get food, you would be miserable and die. If would face natural catastrophe, you could be very weak next to it...

But, I think it is interesting that Bible tells, when one is weak, he is powerful.

For when I may be weak, then I am powerful.
2 Cor. 12:10

Often it seems, those who appear strong are actually the weakest.