Is Stillness Necessary To Spirituality?

[Sunstone]

Is an inner stillness of mind necessary to spirituality?

If so, must we always have an inner stillness of mind for genuine spiritual awareness, or is stillness more like an occassional experience that enriches and informs our spirituality?

Can we have a genuine spiritual awareness if our mind flaps about like a fish on land?

Is spirituality grounded in something deeper or more primal than mere day to day consciousness?

http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/2006/08/action-of-no-action.html#links

 

[sojourner]

In our day-to-day "flopping about," as you put it, we can easily become distracted by the busyness, the noise, the bluster. We can become blinded to what is real by the flash of our own perceived reality. Knowing that our only reality is in God, and not in ourselves, we must find a way to "come away by ourselves" as Jesus did, to remember that God is found in the center of our being, even though we crowd junk all around that center. Being centered, being quiet, being focused, is the best way to cut through the B.S. we build up for ourselves. "Be still and know that I am God." Unless we are quiet, our own static can get in the way of God.

 

[Mr. Hair]

I would say so. There's an old saying; 'The moon is reflected in the lake. Neither desire this, it happens because both are still.' It is only when we are able to still our minds that we become aware of the deeper silence that surrounds us.

Not that such permanent inner quiet is necessary, or even desirable all the time. Everything is in constant flux, including ourselves, and to attempt to cling to one particular state of mind would be wasteful. Both silence and noise have their uses; once stillness has been found in the cave, we still occasionally need to go to the marketplace.

All this is of course just my opinion...

 

[eudaimonia]

Is an inner stillness of mind necessary to spirituality?

Not necessarily. I'd say that a joy that made you jump up and down is just as spiritual.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Hacker]

Is an inner stillness of mind necessary to spirituality?

In my opinion, it's ONE of the things necessary to spirituality, but I don't think you have to emulate what "hard core" monks do when they meditate because they spend much of their time doing so, but I think that quieting the mind for at least 15 minutes or so everysingle day is very important because of our busy lifestyles and cluttered minds many of us can't escape from because of our lifestyles. Plus, it's easier to tap into your intuition(where you feel GOd may lead you, or if your unsure about something) when the mind is quiet. So I'd have to say yeah, it's totally necessary. Plus, there has been numerous studies indicating that deep breathing exercises lowers blood pressure, anxiety, eases tension, etc.

 

[Sunstone]

I would say so. There's an old saying; 'The moon is reflected in the lake. Neither desire this, it happens because both are still.' It is only when we are able to still our minds that we become aware of the deeper silence that surrounds us.

Not that such permanent inner quiet is necessary, or even desirable all the time. Everything is in constant flux, including ourselves, and to attempt to cling to one particular state of mind would be wasteful. Both silence and noise have their uses; once stillness has been found in the cave, we still occasionally need to go to the marketplace.

All this is of course just my opinion...

What do you consider to be the relationship between desire and purpose, on the one hand, and stillness, on the other hand?

 

[Sunstone]

In our day-to-day "flopping about," as you put it, we can easily become distracted by the busyness, the noise, the bluster. We can become blinded to what is real by the flash of our own perceived reality. Knowing that our only reality is in God, and not in ourselves, we must find a way to "come away by ourselves" as Jesus did, to remember that God is found in the center of our being, even though we crowd junk all around that center. Being centered, being quiet, being focused, is the best way to cut through the B.S. we build up for ourselves. "Be still and know that I am God." Unless we are quiet, our own static can get in the way of God.

Does having faith ever somehow free us to be still in our consciousness?

 

[Sunstone]

Not necessarily. I'd say that a joy that made you jump up and down is just as spiritual.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Suppose we feel such a "jump up and down" joy while attending a football game or while attending a rousing church service. Are those spiritual joys? What do you mean by "spiritual"?

 

[Sunstone]

In my opinion, it's ONE of the things necessary to spirituality, but I don't think you have to emulate what "hard core" monks do when they meditate because they spend much of their time doing so, but I think that quieting the mind for at least 15 minutes or so everysingle day is very important because of our busy lifestyles and cluttered minds many of us can't escape from because of our lifestyles. Plus, it's easier to tap into your intuition(where you feel GOd may lead you, or if your unsure about something) when the mind is quiet. So I'd have to say yeah, it's totally necessary. Plus, there has been numerous studies indicating that deep breathing exercises lowers blood pressure, anxiety, eases tension, etc.

Can a genuine spirituality come about when the mind is quieted at will? Can you force the mind to be quiet? And if you force the mind to be quiet, does that kind of stillness bring about a genuine spiritual experience?

I ask these questions because it is often said, at least in some Eastern religions, that to desire to be still is a contradiction in terms because desire is the cause of one's not being still.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Is an inner stillness of mind necessary to spirituality?

Yes, imo. Without it we really are flapping about like a fish on land and our chances of getting back to some water are entirely dependent upon someone or something picking us and dropping us in it.

If so, must we always have an inner stillness of mind for genuine spiritual awareness, or is stillness more like an occassional experience that enriches and informs our spirituality?

Its both in a way. Not possible to stay in stillness indefinately but there are varying degrees of inner-quiescence that can be maintained while active. There has to be a movement towards stillness at least. If I wasn't spending 99% of my time in denial and willful distraction I'd be working to stay in a more or less permanent state of meditation.

Can we have a genuine spiritual awareness if our mind flaps about like a fish on land?

Maybe a certain awareness can persist, but to grow we need to become quieter.

I like this theory of harmonising yin and yang which suggests this has to be the case: The forcefulness of yang must yield to yin. Yang, defiant & excitable by nature, is yet only fulfilled when it gives over to the governance of yin. The receptivity of yin should certainly lead yang. Yin, submissive & reposeful by nature, is yet only fulfilled when it is given the governance of yang.

Is spirituality grounded in something deeper or more primal than mere day to day consciousness?

Something more basic, more fundmental than day to day consciousness? Yes I think so. Its so often said that God is found within, that we already have Buddhamind, that the Tao must be forgotten to be followed, etc. Its like we get stuck in confused patterns of thought and behaviour, become so familiar with them that we fail to realise how we're stuck, and need to withdraw from them in order to recover what was potentially always available to us - our direct line to Spirit.

 

[eudaimonia]

Suppose we feel such a "jump up and down" joy while attending a football game or while attending a rousing church service.

Suppose you felt peace of mind watching a chess match. Is that spiritual?

Are those spiritual joys?

Yes, they can be. The football game is a more dubious example than the church service, of course, but if it was meaningful enough it would be.

What do you mean by "spiritual"?

In this context, it refers to a deep and meaningful experience that integrates our personalities and unifies our awareness for a time. Roughly that.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[sojourner]

Can a genuine spirituality come about when the mind is quieted at will? Can you force the mind to be quiet? And if you force the mind to be quiet, does that kind of stillness bring about a genuine spiritual experience?

I ask these questions because it is often said, at least in some Eastern religions, that to desire to be still is a contradiction in terms because desire is the cause of one's not being still.

I agree. One has to allow the mind to be still. But that allowance comes by way of (to answer an earlier question of yours) faith that God is there, and by willing ourselves to get out of our own way.

 

[Vigdisdotter]

Is an inner stillness of mind necessary to spirituality?

No. But perspective is. And "inner stillness" is one way of attaining that perspective.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Can a genuine spirituality come about when the mind is quieted at will? Can you force the mind to be quiet? And if you force the mind to be quiet, does that kind of stillness bring about a genuine spiritual experience?

Force excites mind, so it has to be a yielding thing. We have to give up, give in, let go and relax.

 

[sojourner]

Suppose we feel such a "jump up and down" joy while attending a football game or while attending a rousing church service. Are those spiritual joys? What do you mean by "spiritual"?

The line we often draw between temporal and spiritual is too hard. We are fully integrated physical and spiritual beings. Of course joy can be spiritual -- no matter the vehicle of delivery. I'm of the opinion that the high one gets from marijuana or peyote can be a spiritual joy, if used in the right frame of mind and heart.

 

[Sunstone]

No. But perspective is. And "inner stillness" is one way of attaining that perspective.

Interesting. How do you define "Spirituality", O Darling Vigdisdotter?

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

No. But perspective is. And "inner stillness" is one way of attaining that perspective.

Stillness precedes perception. The more one meditates the less one perceives until it all collapses into, er, one. And from that, collapses into none.

 

[michel]

Is an inner stillness of mind necessary to spirituality?

Depending on the occasion, yes.

If so, must we always have an inner stillness of mind for genuine spiritual awareness, or is stillness more like an occassional experience that enriches and informs our spirituality?

Spirituality can be a 'group' thing; there is nothing quite as emotive as a congregation having a darned good sing. As long as there is joy and hapiness, that is uplifting.............

Can we have a genuine spiritual awareness if our mind flaps about like a fish on land?

I think that we do have a need to have the ability to 'do' the stillness of mind - but the need for it need not take over our lives. I have my 'God' moments each day, when everything stops 'flapping'

Is spirituality grounded in something deeper or more primal than mere day to day consciousness?

I believe it is something deeper; it involves 'streching out'........
http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/2006/08/action-of-no-action.html#links[/quote]

I do agree with this:-(from the blog)

All the time we are bombarded with this and that. ask people and you will increasingly find that nobody has any spare time when he or she can be still, or have time to do NOTHING. This doing 'nothing' is not derived from lazyness. A lazy person on the contrary, does more things, waste more energy. i am talking about consciously doing Nothing. you can translate this to meditation, sitting on the prayer rug with inner silence or just watching the night sky absorbing the grandness of creation. all serve the same purpose: to be still.

especially the "sitting on the prayer rug with inner silence or just watching the night sky absorbing the grandness of creation. all serve the same purpose: to be still."

 

[Hacker]

Can a genuine spirituality come about when the mind is quieted at will? Can you force the mind to be quiet?

I think it takes practice, diligence and dedication to achieve "genuine spirituality" so that's how I would explain a reliable way to "force" the mind to be quiet by practice, but remember, I said that this is only ONE important element to achieving spirituality amoung many other things like prayer, educating, and finding peace and sharing it with all by doing good will to other's and being a good person as a result of those things.

And if you force the mind to be quiet, does that kind of stillness bring about a genuine spiritual experience?

It depends on the person and how much dedication to practice they do. Many people have claimed to have had a "genuine spirutual experience" but like I said, I guess it depends on their diligence and dedication to such practice and their belief in it potentiall being a successful spiritual awakening.

 

[Vigdisdotter]

Interesting. How do you define "Spirituality", O Darling Vigdisdotter?

Spirituality is personal perception of the universe, of god, of afterlife, of souls, of different realms of existence and so on. That perception may affirm or deny the existence of a given thing. The key is that it's personal understanding, something internal to yourself rather then the imposed by the group (religion).

And you can't have that understanding unless you have a personal prospective to start from. If that makes any sense.

I'd also like to note that this isn't a pot-shot at religion. Religion has it's place, and is useful tool in and of itself. One even hopes that spirituality finds it way into one's own practice of religion. But spirituality itself is where it all starts. Without that personal understanding, it's just going through the motions.