Is Suffering Spiritually Beneficial?

[bobhikes]

And this has to do with the spiritual benefits of suffering...how? I'm not following you.

Sorry, suffering to me allows me to focus on the needs of others or my future self. I would consider the needs of others or future needs to be spiritual. Mind you it doesn't help my self in the now but allows my self to broaden to include others or a future.

 

[HarihOm]

Namaste Hello Sunstone,

Thank you for the welcome. For my response in this thread I will continue with the wisdom I have learned from Gautama the Buddha and that tradition. I see nobody has really dedicated in detail so much attention to the subject of suffering as Siddharta. By understanding Dukkha one gets liberated from it, this is his vital message.

In line with the Buddhas teaching again what would be considered as spiritually beneficial would be the lessening, releasing and freedom from Greed, Hatred and Delusion.

Suffering has a cause, if one see's into that cause then the code is cracked and the solution is found. According to Buddha Dharma phenomenon has the inherent nature of Dukkha, mostly due to change, nothing in the phenomenal range is lasting, so attachment is one cause of why we suffer, there are many layers to this knowledge.

According to your first post we may have a slightly different view on what is spirituality, although I accept this word its slowly loosing its meaning because its used so often in many contexts. What you mention in your OP is that spirituality is giving some benefit to the individual psychology. This has great value, we need self awareness and learn what makes us tick and what is best for us, the deeper level we can go with this the better, spirituality will also entail that our individual self or package ( not to fond of the word ego the ways its being used at the moment) is non different from others individual self existence, and then make a unified reach to all beings.

 

[Kartari]

Hi Sun,

How would you define "spirituality"? I ask because I do not doubt that suffering may have benefits, I only doubt that it has many spiritual benefits.

Not dissimilar to your own definition, actually. I see spiritual practice as essentially psychotherapeutic practice as well, though broader since it goes beyond the self. Ultimately, the point is to not only find genuine inner contentment, but to be more compassionate and to help others ultimately attain likewise for themselves. Perhaps I see spiritual practice as both a psychotherapeutic and moral practice, then.

I think where our arguments differ is that I am saying suffering can provide us with opportunities to grow, while you are arguing that love and perhaps other more positive experiences can accomplish the same without suffering. I do not disagree with you. In fact, this gets at the heart of one of the reasons why I find the monotheistic deity concepts illogical (i.e. why would an omni-all creator intentionally create suffering when (a) innately bestowing the benefits without suffering or (b) positive experiences can accomplish the same benefits, not to mention the pointlessness of needless suffering). Nonetheless, suffering can provide opportunities to achieve benefits as well. We have to deal with life as it comes, may as well make lemonade out of the lemons.

 

[Acim]

Is suffering spiritually beneficial? If so, precisely how does it spiritually benefit someone to suffer? If not, then why not?

Being illusionary, I don't see suffering as beneficial, nor rational to conclude that it could be.
But given that many of spiritual/religious beliefs co-mingle physical existence with spiritual reality, I do think it is plausible to see what the context is to determine what the actual (alleged) suffering entails and how that plays out, to then possibly determine if it is relatively beneficial. Relatively beneficial would still be illusionary in my understanding, but that perception of benefit could matter a great deal to the person identifying with the (alleged) suffering and to those able to observe the situation (i.e. friends and family).

I believe that anyone who experiences suffering, and keeps an open and observant mind about it, can easily note that suffering focuses them on themselves, and is thus self or ego-aggrandizing.

And if those people are lucky enough to have experienced at some time in their lives a certain kind of love, then they can further note that suffering does not teach them anything that can be called truly profound in comparison to what that love has taught them. In short, there are few or no spiritual benefits to suffering.

At least, that's how I see it based on my own experience.

I recently had physical ailment that lead to own perception of (physical) suffering. There were a bunch of things I was processing, and one of them was me being analytical on the place (on my body) that ailment was occurring. When connecting with Spirit and having dialogue on it, it then became solid realization of how I could do things differently going forward. First (though not foremost) was having medical doctor weigh in as the physical discomfort was strong enough at points and my thoughts of suffering at points were nearing the unbearable mark.

Anyway, for me the context does matter, because of Spirit connection and my theological understandings. I don't receive messages from Spirit that it is illusion because Spirit knows I know this and because as much as it is illusion, part of that is how much I buy into the illusion, which in this case was enough to matter (temporarily). But given the entire context of the situation, it has lead to slightly better care of myself going forward. And I say slightly cause it is thus far short lived. It could become significant, but I might not know that until months/years from now, and yet also not really known how it would've gone had I remained stuck to the other path. I do not readily identify that I was doing anything (significantly) wrong to warrant the ailment, but what I was doing was making it so if an ailment did arise, it would be harder (conceivably) to get rid of.

So, the recovery process from perceived suffering certainly does have benefits. Can be easier to remove certain spiritual blocks (to greater awareness) by experiencing recovery, especially if willing to process it spiritually. Not so much if processing it entirely physically, as that greatly limits perspective.

The only benefit that makes a little sense to me regarding suffering is it does force you to rest, and deal with latest (likely self induced) forms of stress in a different way. But even with that context would matter and surely no one actually needs to be forced to rest. Though, given allegiance to the illusion/physical, it sometimes seems like we need to be taken down in order to remind ourselves of the importance of rest.

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Interesting thread!

To me, suffering is a VERY mixed bag. Some people are transformed by their suffering but many others become bitter & twisted or even violent.

Personally, I have suffered a lot - over three decades with schizophrenia - but it has (finally) led me to a place of peace and unconditional compassion for those who still suffer.

Namaste

 

[Madhuri]

From what I can recall of other conversations with you, we have very different notions of "spirituality". There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but in order for me to better understand where you're coming from, would you offer an example of suffering leading to self-development? And then explain how that benefits one spiritually?

For example, I think that experiencing pain and disappointment as a young person helps to nurture empathy and consideration for others. Once we know what it's like to experience a type of suffering, we are less likely to want to cause another that same suffering. By contrast, if we have never experienced a type of suffering, we are less likely to care or sympathise with those who are experiencing it, probably because we can't relate.

I think that empathy and the broadening of knowledge and understanding is linked to spiritual development. I believe that true realisation is that understanding of our connection and Oneness with all things. Any experience that helps to open our awareness and help us connect with others is spiritual imo.

 

[Tumah]

Is suffering spiritually beneficial? If so, precisely how does it spiritually benefit someone to suffer? If not, then why not?



I myself would argue that suffering provides few or no spiritual benefits.

To me, a person's spirituality consists of the manner and extent to which they deal with their psychological self. That is, their "I", ego, or individual self. The more spiritually adept or skillful one is, the better they are at dealing with their psychological self,

One might therefore ask whether suffering makes it easier to skilfully deal with one's self.

I believe that anyone who experiences suffering, and keeps an open and observant mind about it, can easily note that suffering focuses them on themselves, and is thus self or ego-aggrandizing.

And if those people are lucky enough to have experienced at some time in their lives a certain kind of love, then they can further note that suffering does not teach them anything that can be called truly profound in comparison to what that love has taught them. In short, there are few or no spiritual benefits to suffering.

At least, that's how I see it based on my own experience.

Although I believe that there is spiritual benefit to suffering, I define spirituality differently than you.

However, even in your own definition, I see benefit. It does cause one to focus on oneself, and through that one can learn about oneself and grow to become a greater person. Two vital benefits. Of course, like anything else including love, if one doesn't make proper use of the event, then it won't have any beneficial effect.

 

[Kartari]

To clarify my post #23, when I say suffering can provide us with opportunities to grow, I do not mean suffering itself intrinsically helps us to grow, but rather our budding awareness of the causes of that suffering can help us grow.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

In my experience of suffering--and "I" in the ego plane have been privy to plenty--this statement which popped up just today rang very true for me, thought I'd share it. Whether it's cognizance of my own or someone else's suffering for whom the chord of compassion got twanged, I do always seem to run to my altar to deal with it. Hmmmm, now that I think about it, wonder if that beloved Prankster God has a little Pavlovian training going on here? Hmmmm, she said again, head nodding seemingly of its own volition....

 

[crossfire]

The only benefit I can see in suffering is in the opportunity to know it for what it is. (Ignorance is not bliss.)

Namaste Hello Sunstone,

Thank you for the welcome. For my response in this thread I will continue with the wisdom I have learned from Gautama the Buddha and that tradition. I see nobody has really dedicated in detail so much attention to the subject of suffering as Siddharta. By understanding Dukkha one gets liberated from it, this is his vital message.

In line with the Buddhas teaching again what would be considered as spiritually beneficial would be the lessening, releasing and freedom from Greed, Hatred and Delusion.

Suffering has a cause, if one see's into that cause then the code is cracked and the solution is found. According to Buddha Dharma phenomenon has the inherent nature of Dukkha, mostly due to change, nothing in the phenomenal range is lasting, so attachment is one cause of why we suffer, there are many layers to this knowledge.

According to your first post we may have a slightly different view on what is spirituality, although I accept this word its slowly loosing its meaning because its used so often in many contexts. What you mention in your OP is that spirituality is giving some benefit to the individual psychology. This has great value, we need self awareness and learn what makes us tick and what is best for us, the deeper level we can go with this the better, spirituality will also entail that our individual self or package ( not to fond of the word ego the ways its being used at the moment) is non different from others individual self existence, and then make a unified reach to all beings.

I liken attachment to addiction, and tanha (fiery craving) to "craving like an addict." Interestingly, studies have linked suffering to addiction and addictive behavior:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

 

[icehorse]

If you're paying attention, a little suffering ought to go a long way. I'd say that a little suffering can be an expeditious teacher.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Is suffering spiritually beneficial? If so, precisely how does it spiritually benefit someone to suffer? If not, then why not?



I myself would argue that suffering provides few or no spiritual benefits.

To me, a person's spirituality consists of the manner and extent to which they deal with their psychological self. That is, their "I", ego, or individual self. The more spiritually adept or skillful one is, the better they are at dealing with their psychological self,

One might therefore ask whether suffering makes it easier to skilfully deal with one's self.

I believe that anyone who experiences suffering, and keeps an open and observant mind about it, can easily note that suffering focuses them on themselves, and is thus self or ego-aggrandizing.

And if those people are lucky enough to have experienced at some time in their lives a certain kind of love, then they can further note that suffering does not teach them anything that can be called truly profound in comparison to what that love has taught them. In short, there are few or no spiritual benefits to suffering.

At least, that's how I see it based on my own experience.

I don't see suffering as spiritually beneficial. My brain surgery has left me clinically depressed for three or some odd years of my life. I still have some depression lingering. It has brought down my language skills. It has caused me to be partially blind and probably developing another vision issue. It has stumped my growth.

I learned a lot from suffering; and, the knowledge I learned is not something I would miss if I hadn't Epilepsy and surgery. When I was in the Church, that's all there was was suffering. Suffering in confession. Suffering at Mass. Suffering in pertinence. Suffering from guilt after taking the Eucharist. Suffering from sins that I have not committed but felt I did. Suffering from Christ's Passion. I learned a lot about the deep nature of Christianity but I would never practice it to experience suffering for everlasting life and wisdom.

I am happy finding solace in creativity and freedom of expression. I'm happy finding what cures the ills of my mind not just my body. I learn from not suffering. I learn from my blessings. I learn from the good things that happen to me. I learn from what my ancestors have told me recently. What the Spirits have orchestrated for me the blessings and answers in the past few days surprisingly. I honestly don't need suffering to receive these things. We just get locked up into our own depression that we become comfortable like prisoners in Plato's Republic Myth of the Cave staring at shadows on the wall and chained together. I don't need that reality to live.

No. Suffering doesn't benefit me. That's me.