Is suicide sin?

[wilieha]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif] There are several very good and interesting discussions going on here. I appreciate all who have the courage to put their thoughts to the test. I am faced with the dilemma of suicide again, and as a pastor, I find it terribly difficult to comfort the families. GOD'S word is strangely silent on the subject.[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif]I have come up with a theory and would like some feedback.[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif]I have come to to see those who commit suicide as mentally ill at the moment they pull the trigger or whatever method they use. It is my thinking that eventhough "Thou shalt not kill" covers all murder, and suicide is murder of ourselves, Our GOD does not punish the infirm. I would be grateful for your thoughts as to weather suicide is a sin or not. I will be away from the computer for a few days but will reply as need next week.[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif]Thank You[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif]Wilieha[/font]

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif]I have come to to see those who commit suicide as mentally ill at the moment they pull the trigger or whatever method they use.[/font]

I suspect that you are not qualified to make such a determination. Furthermore, I find it very disturbing (not to mention symptomatic) that you view the suicidal as an undifferentiated class - the terminally ill in chronic and acute pain is not the same as the treatable clinically depressed.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'm afraid I'm not much help here. 'Sin' and 'hell' are concepts that I don't accept or believe in.

 

[Ceridwen018]

I don't know if those committing suicide could be considered mentally ill per se....some (not most, but some) of them aren't even clinically depressed. They're just feeling intense saddness and pain, which has usually been building up over time. It's the same thing as experiencing great love and joy--just at the other end of the spectrum. One thing is for certain though, feelings of intense saddness are unhealthy.

I don't think that suicide should be a sin. If it is, god is basically punishing the person for their feelings of saddness which they often can't control. Because god has failed to help them see the joy in the world, they feel killing themselves is the only way to relieve their suffering. God created human emotions, he should know how they work and therefore be understanding.

 

[Fra.Morelia]

Generally I view it as weak and silly. However, like anything in life, it runs the spectrum all the way up to honorable and couragous. Take, for example, a serviceman that hurls himself on a grenade to save his friends. It is clearly suicidal behavior, but he saved lives with his death. An agonizingly hurt man might choose to dispatch himself in a cleaner fashion. These things happen.
A man or woman who has lost EVERYTHING falls into the middle of this spectrum. These are people who lost everything they loved and simply don't have the will to go out and find new loves. Then there are the weak silly ones who hit a few of lifes stumbles (which happen to all of us sooner or later. draw breath long enough and you WILL get the shaft mightily) and decide that it is too challenging and confusing and a .38 to the head just makes sooo much more sense. Which is ironic, because the rest of us would consider that making a bad week even worse. Lost my job, the woman took the cat and left, and now i get shot.. great.
And, some, amongst the lot are mentally ill. I don't hold a mentally ill person accountable for their actions. They will still be rendered harmless to society, but it isn't their fault. If there was a god, I would surely hope he was at least as understanding as I am. I am an ignorant jarhead, and if I can figure that much out, so, I would hope, could the allmighty grand poobah of exhalted creation.

 

[(Q)]

[font=Comic Sans MS,Sans-Serif]as a pastor, I find it terribly difficult to comfort the families. GOD'S word is strangely silent on the subject.

If your gods word is "strangely silent," then as a pastor that is what you must also be. If not, you are therefore offering your personal opinion to the families as just another man/woman.

You preclude your gods voice.
[/font]

 

[dan]

Suicide is sin (one of the worst) if the person is cognizant of their actions, but you are right in that some are unaware of consequences and right and wrong. Many people are intellectually and emotionally unqualified to be judged for their actions in such a situation. God judges each case individually and makes His decision based on their awareness of their responsibilities before Him.

The best one can do is help the families and friends to understand that, whatever the outcome, God will extend every mercy and every bit of love He can towards that person. He is often more merciful towards us than we are towards ourselves. Wherever that person ends up, it will be the best place for them. The wicked will feel no joy in the presence of God. They will only feel remorse to a degree we cannot fathom. God's love is extended even to the evil. He puts them where they will be the most comfortable.

 

[Linus]

Wilieha,
Your reasoning on why suicide is a sin would be corect enough in itself. Murder is a sin, and suicide is self-murder. It seems clear enough to me.

 

[Scott1]

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Peace,
Scott

 

[IceFire]

I don't believe in sin so for me suicide isn't sin.

 

[dan]

If there is no sin then there is no evil. If there is no evil then there is no good or righteousness. If there is no good then there is no joy in this life. I feel sorry for you and your warped perception of reality.

 

[IceFire]

Not necessarily, sin is the breaking of a religious law. Good and evil are not religious.

 

[dan]

No, transgression is the breaking of a religious law. Look it up. Do not enter into an etymological argument with me, you will not come out on top. Sin is the commission of an immoral act. These acts can be defined in many ways. Religion sometimes defines it, but so can utilitarianism, consequentialism, deontological ethics, moral relativity, monism, and whatever other branch of philosophy you subscribe to. All beliefs about existence contain good and evil. Sin lives in them all.

 

[IceFire]

Morality is based upon what a person believes. and sin is defined as "A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate"

 

[Scott1]

Hiya,

Morality is based upon what a person believes.

I would have to disagree with that........


I. THE SOURCES OF MORALITY
1750 The morality of human acts depends on:

- the object chosen;
- the end in view or the intention;
- the circumstances of the action.

The object, the intention, and the circumstances make up the "sources," or constitutive elements, of the morality of human acts.


1751 The object chosen is a good toward which the will deliberately directs itself. It is the matter of a human act. The object chosen morally specifies the act of the will, insofar as reason recognizes and judges it to be or not to be in conformity with the true good. Objective norms of morality express the rational order of good and evil, attested to by conscience.


1752 In contrast to the object, the intention resides in the acting subject. Because it lies at the voluntary source of an action and determines it by its end, intention is an element essential to the moral evaluation of an action. The end is the first goal of the intention and indicates the purpose pursued in the action. The intention is a movement of the will toward the end: it is concerned with the goal of the activity. It aims at the good anticipated from the action undertaken. Intention is not limited to directing individual actions, but can guide several actions toward one and the same purpose; it can orient one's whole life toward its ultimate end. For example, a service done with the end of helping one's neighbor can at the same time be inspired by the love of God as the ultimate end of all our actions. One and the same action can also be inspired by several intentions, such as performing a service in order to obtain a favor or to boast about it.


1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one's neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving).39

1754 The circumstances, including the consequences, are secondary elements of a moral act. They contribute to increasing or diminishing the moral goodness or evil of human acts (for example, the amount of a theft). They can also diminish or increase the agent's responsibility (such as acting out of a fear of death). Circumstances of themselves cannot change the moral quality of acts themselves; they can make neither good nor right an action that is in itself evil.


Peace,
Scott

 

[dan]

First off, that definition is very lacking. Second, you only help to prove my point. So it's not only the breaking of a religious law? So you admit that breaking a moral law is sin? All people believe in morality, ergo all people believe in sin. If you do not believe in morality, then please explain.

 

[IceFire]

Hiya,
I would have to disagree with that........


I. THE SOURCES OF MORALITY
1750 The morality of human acts depends on:

- the object chosen;
- the end in view or the intention;
- the circumstances of the action.

The object, the intention, and the circumstances make up the "sources," or constitutive elements, of the morality of human acts.


1751 The object chosen is a good toward which the will deliberately directs itself. It is the matter of a human act. The object chosen morally specifies the act of the will, insofar as reason recognizes and judges it to be or not to be in conformity with the true good. Objective norms of morality express the rational order of good and evil, attested to by conscience.


1752 In contrast to the object, the intention resides in the acting subject. Because it lies at the voluntary source of an action and determines it by its end, intention is an element essential to the moral evaluation of an action. The end is the first goal of the intention and indicates the purpose pursued in the action. The intention is a movement of the will toward the end: it is concerned with the goal of the activity. It aims at the good anticipated from the action undertaken. Intention is not limited to directing individual actions, but can guide several actions toward one and the same purpose; it can orient one's whole life toward its ultimate end. For example, a service done with the end of helping one's neighbor can at the same time be inspired by the love of God as the ultimate end of all our actions. One and the same action can also be inspired by several intentions, such as performing a service in order to obtain a favor or to boast about it.


1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one's neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving).39

1754 The circumstances, including the consequences, are secondary elements of a moral act. They contribute to increasing or diminishing the moral goodness or evil of human acts (for example, the amount of a theft). They can also diminish or increase the agent's responsibility (such as acting out of a fear of death). Circumstances of themselves cannot change the moral quality of acts themselves; they can make neither good nor right an action that is in itself evil.


Peace,
Scott

But weither or not a person excepts that action as immoral is based on what someone believes.

 

[Scott1]

IceFire,

But weither or not a person excepts that action as immoral is based on what someone believes

I need you to clarify:

Which person...... the one making the action or someone else?

Scott

 

[dan]

So everything is subjective? Great, you've destroyed the universe again.

 

[IceFire]

IceFire,


I need you to clarify:

Which person...... the one making the action or someone else?

Scott

Which ever one wants to pass moral judgement.