Is the Bible too Contradictory for All of it to be True?

[savagewind]

I think most people have a lot of good ideas about what the Bible communicates.
But, I have a certainty that most people have some serious wrong ideas about what the Bible
seems to communicate and a little leaven ferments the rest of it.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I do not know what scripture in the NIV they use to support their idea. Do you?

Most likely 1 These 4:16,17, there maybe others, but since I do not go by the NIV and I don't believe in their Rapture Theory.
I would have little use of having the NIV.

 

[savagewind]

Most likely 1 These 4:16,17, there maybe others, but since I do not go by the NIV and I don't believe in their Rapture Theory.
I would have little use of having the NIV.

Why are you saying it is the NIV that you have no use for especially regarding 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

It appears all the Bibles say it.

Here it is in the Young's Literal Translation
then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be

1 Thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Why are you saying it is the NIV that you have no use for especially regarding 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

It appears all the Bibles say it.

Here it is in the Young's Literal Translation
then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be

1 Thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Take the word ( air ) in the Hebrew Translation means ( Ruach ) which means
Spirit.
Therefore 1 Thess 4:17 would read --
To meet the Lord in the Spirit.

Note ( clouds ) this being a cloud of witnesses.
Those who are coming with Jesus are all dress in white linen that gives the appearance of white clouds.

Therefore Clouds in the bible is not always referring to clouds what we see in the sky.

Hebrews 12:1 --"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses"

Therefore in 1 Thess 4:17, those clouds, are clouds of witnesses that Return with Christ Jesus at his coming.

Many people are being taught that when Christ Jesus returns, he is taking people out from the earth.

The whole reason Christ Jesus returns back to the earth is for his elect people and to establish his kingdom here on Earth.
Therefore no one's going any where.but right here on earth.

Notice here in Matthew 24:22 --"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened"

Now why would Jesus need to shortened the days of the Tribulation, if people have been Raptured out before the Tribulation?

Notice in the book of Proverbs 10:30 --"The
righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth"

Therefore the righteous being Jesus elect people, shall ( never ) be removed from the earth.
So how does this fit into the Rapture Theory?

 

[savagewind]

Good post @Faithofchristian
I believe in meeting Jesus in the spirit.
So. it appears someone sometime back when changed it from spirit to the air a person breaths.
Oh, well. What else is new?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Greek Text Analysis
Greek Concordance: ἀέρα (aera) -- 5 Occurrences
New American Standard Bible
And as they were crying out and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air

 

[Faithofchristian]

Good post @Faithofchristian
I believe in meeting Jesus in the spirit.
So. it appears someone sometime back when changed it from spirit to the air a person breaths.
Oh, well. What else is new?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Greek Text Analysis
Greek Concordance: ἀέρα (aera) -- 5 Occurrences
New American Standard Bible
And as they were crying out and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air

If you go to the book of
1st Corinthians 15:51--53.
Paul Written in Verse 51- we all shall be changed"
What this mean is--We all shall be changed from this body of flesh and blood to the spirit, to meet the Lord in the spirit.

 

[savagewind]

If you go to the book of
1st Corinthians 15:51--53.
Paul Written in Verse 51- we all shall be changed"
What this mean is--We all shall be changed from this body of flesh and blood to the spirit, to meet the Lord in the spirit.

Are you arguing opposite points of view?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Are you arguing opposite points of view?

No, what I'm showing is what Paul Written in 1st These 4:17 goes with what Paul Written in 1st Corinthians 15:51-53.

That at Jesus coming we all shall be changed from this body to spirit to meet Jesus in the spirit.

 

[savagewind]

No, what I'm showing is what Paul Written in 1st These 4:17 goes with what Paul Written in 1st Corinthians 15:51-53.

That at Jesus coming we all shall be changed from this body to spirit to meet Jesus in the spirit.

OK. It is my opinion that my spirit even as it dwells in this (fat) body can meet Jesus in the spirit.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true? I've heard that said about the Bible, but I don't know enough about it. What do you think?

Yes, it is.

See for instance 2 Chronicles 18:18-22 and how flawed is that depiction of a God that is supposed to be the source for virtue itself.

Or how disgusting the contents of Numbers 31:1-12 , Numbers 31:14-19 and Deuteronomy 20:10-20 are.

Whoever that God might be, he is not worth of respect, let alone worship.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true? I've heard that said about the Bible, but I don't know enough about it. What do you think?

Is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true ?

Let's for say that a person who has no understanding about speaking or understanding of the German language.

So how would that person go about to translate the German language into English ?

They would take whatever tools they had available to them, to translate the German language into English.

Not saying that every word would be the right translation In their translation. But they did the best they could with what tools were available to them.

The same with those, four to five hundred years ago, they too taken what tools were available to translate the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

Not saying that every word would be the right translation. But they did the best they could with what tools were available to them.

So what we have is those back four to five hundred years ago. Did the best to translate the Hebrew and Greek language into English.
Not saying that every word would be the right translation. But they did their best, with what tools they had to translate the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

In to days world we can find all the necessary tools we need to translate the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

But back, four to five hundred years ago, They didn't have the right tools to translate. But they did the best they could with what tools they had available to them. To give us the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

It would probably be no different for people to day, if they do not understand the German language.
what tools would they use to translate the German language into English ?

Not saying that every word would be the right word in their translation. But they did the best they could.
Therefore those people four to five hundred years ago, did their best in their translation of the Hebrew and Greek language into English language.
So that now we have the Bible into the English language,
Not saying every word would be the right word for the translation, But they did the best they could to give us the Bible in the English language.

But for some reason, People would rather condemn others for their lack of understanding another Language.
Not understanding that they did the best they could with what tools were available to them, to translate the Hebrew and Greek language into the English language.

Therefore if I come across a word in the bible that seems to contradict, I go to my Hebrew and Greek translation, to get a better understanding of what the word Actually means.

Therefore is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true.
No just a mistranslation of the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

Therefore a word can get lost in Translation.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Why are you saying it is the NIV that you have no use for especially regarding 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

It appears all the Bibles say it.

Here it is in the Young's Literal Translation
then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be

1 Thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The KJV 1611, does not support the Rapture Theory.
That is man's teachings that twisting the KJV 1611 into Supporting their Rapture Theory.
I've been reading the KJV 1611 for about 45 years and have of yet to find anything in the supporting any Rapture Theory.

 

[savagewind]

The KJV 1611, does not support the Rapture Theory.
That is man's teachings that twisting the KJV 1611 into Supporting their Rapture Theory.
I've been reading the KJV 1611 for about 45 years and have of yet to find anything in the supporting any Rapture Theory.

They believe scripture supports it. I don't.

 

[Phantasman]

Yes, it is.

See for instance 2 Chronicles 18:18-22 and how flawed is that depiction of a God that is supposed to be the source for virtue itself.

Or how disgusting the contents of Numbers 31:1-12 , Numbers 31:14-19 and Deuteronomy 20:10-20 are.

Whoever that God might be, he is not worth of respect, let alone worship.

Bingo. Which is why Jesus taught of the true God the Father, over the God the Jews saw. (John 8).

The Jews said their fathers heard God and Jesus said "you have never heard his voice". When Jesus said that "he" was the way, that didn't include the OT.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The only fault that would be in the Bible.
Is lost in Translation of Words.

Unto which if words are not correctly Translated, which are lost in Translation could lead to the misunderstanding of words, Which could lead the bible in looking like it's contradicting it's self.
All because words were lost in Translation.

 

[Muffled]

I think that the rapture is just another way of looking at the fact that God will not allow any lasting harm to God's children. When the situation becomes like they believe in, then to be raptured just means that the evil which they believe comes cannot get them. So they devise a picture in their minds like flying. LOL

I believe you are very innovative in your approach but the rapture is not a great departure. Elijah was taken up in a fiery chariot and others were taken up as well.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, that's why they put forth the NIV to give support to their Rapture Theory.

Since the KJV 1611 gives no support to their Rapture Theory.
So they put forth the NIV to support their Rapture Theory.

So my KJV of 1978 is different? I believe it supports the Rapture.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So my KJV of 1978 is different? I believe it supports the Rapture.

If you have the KJV 1611 it will not support the Rapture.

 

[Phantasman]

So my KJV of 1978 is different? I believe it supports the Rapture.

Just an example of following what you read over spiritual truth:

The Geneva Bible (1599) that preceded the KJV, and what KJ used to create the English from Latin translations says this:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, and against the worldly governors, the princes of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness, which are in the high places.

Here is the rape of scripture after KJ changed it:

Ephesians 6:12:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The Spirit reveals the truth if you seek it. Otherwise, you are a following fool of men.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Just an example of following what you read over spiritual truth:

The Geneva Bible (1599) that preceded the KJV, and what KJ used to create the English from Latin translations says this:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, and against the worldly governors, the princes of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness, which are in the high places.

Here is the rape of scripture after KJ changed it:

Ephesians 6:12:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The Spirit reveals the truth if you seek it. Otherwise, you are a following fool of men.

Just because some words in the bible gets lost in Translation, doesn't mean the bible contradicts it's self.

At the time of King James had the Hebrew and Greek language into English, They did the best they could with what tools they had at the time.
There maybe some words that are missed in Translation, But it doesn't mean the bible contradicts it's self. It just means some words were lost in the Translation.So they did what they could with what tools they had to Translate the Hebrew and Greek language into English.

Take for instance in 1st These 4:17, to meet the Lord in the air.
Notice the word ( air ) in the Hebrew Translation of air, Means (Ruwach,) which means ( Spirit)

Therefore, To meet the Lord in the Spirit.

king James upon the Translation of the Hebrew language did the best they could with what tools they had at the time.
So words such as this ( air ) got lost in Translation.
That now for us to day, we have the necessary tools to Translate the Hebrew and Greek language into English.