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Is the "crcifixion" just a metaphor?

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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
jtartar said:
disciple,
Immediately after the fall of Adam and Eve, God made a way for mankind to gain salvation that Adam lost. This is referred to in the first prophecy recorded in the Bible, Gen 3:15. The seed mentioned is Jesus who will be the one to throw Satan an his wicked angels into the Lake of Fire, Rev 20:10, 1John 3:8.
The theme of the whole Bible is The Kingdom, which will be ruled over by Jesus.
God allowed Jesus to come to earth and give his life for all mankind who would believe in him. This is called a Corresponding Ransom, because by Jesus giving his perfect life he bought back the perfect life that Adam lost when he rebelled against God, 1Tim 2:5, Matt 20:28.
So you see Jesus had to give his life for us to be able to live again, if we die, and for the ones who died a chance to live again, John 5:28,29, 2Cor 5:14,15.
Probably the most known scripture in the Bible tells us about Jesus, and all the ones who believe in him can have everlasting life, John 3:16. This scripture is called, by many people, The Gospel in Miniature, because it tells so much about God's purpose for the earth.
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I don't think it was an "actual' sacrifice. The resurrection refutes this notion imo.
An 'actual' sacrifice would entail no resurrection.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I think the 'uncomfortable' aspect of this 'heresy' lol is that I proposed the crucifixion as metaphor, not the resurrection.
I find this odd.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
oldbadger said:
And crucifixion reprieves did happen.
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oldbadger said:
OK......
I am suggesting that there have been similar situations of reprieve. (example Josephus' successful appeal)
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Would you please provide a reference to a Josephus [crucifixion] appeal, similar or otherwise.

You of course have the right to make things up at will but I can't imagine how or why anyone should credit it as anything other than meandering speculation.
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outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Jayhawker Soule said:
Would you please provide a reference to a Josephus [crucifixion] appeal, similar or otherwise.

You of course have the right to make things up at will but I can't imagine how or why anyone should credit it as anything other than meandering speculation.
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Josephus did ask for his personal friends to be let taken down off the cross.


I posted it here for him a while back.


But you are correct, despite this, he is adding meandering speculation to the Jesus character.
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oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Jayhawker Soule said:
Would you please provide a reference to a Josephus [crucifixion] appeal, similar or otherwise.

You of course have the right to make things up at will but I can't imagine how or why anyone should credit it as anything other than meandering speculation.
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Yeah......No probs...... It's mentioned in some of my HJ books. Surprised at you.... not knowing about this.

Josephus (b. 37 C.E.) is our best literary source for the practice of crucifixion in Palestine during the Greco-Roman period. As a general in command of the Jewish forces of Galilee in the Great Revolt against Rome (66-73 C.E.), he reports his attempts to save the lives of three crucified captives by appealing directly to the Roman general Titus. One survived the cross under a physician’s care, the other two could not be saved.

Life 76

And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician’s hands, while the third recovered.
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oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
steeltoes said:
By any chance was it the guy in the middle that survived the crucifixion?
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:D
Look, I'm worried about that already....... without you lot heckling! :D
Really, who could have recognised a convict with bloodied head and features, and scourge-ripped body, crucified with other insurgents upon a hill? Who could have known that much about him at that time? Troublemaker executed. I don't buy the bit about hordes of visitors leaving Jerusalem with the nucleus of a new religion in their hearts. The Galilean survivors... probably.

Question: You know more than you let on....... How do you think Romans crucified their convicts?......... rope and nails, or just nails?
 
S

steeltoes

Junior member
oldbadger said:
:D

Question: You know more than you let on....... How do you think Romans crucified their convicts?......... rope and nails, or just nails?
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I don't know. I doubt they hung people on crosses, that appears to be a much later Christian concept.
 
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oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
steeltoes said:
I don't know. I doubt they hung people on crosses, that appears to be a much later Christian concept.
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OK...... what about stakes..... the translation that the JWs prefer? It does seem like extra trouble, the cross-member, but... if it would delay death by up to three days, and cause maximum humiliation and agony, those b-stards might have thought it all to be worthwhile.
 
Sabour

Sabour

Well-Known Member
oldbadger said:
OK...... what about stakes..... the translation that the JWs prefer? It does seem like extra trouble, the cross-member, but... if it would delay death by up to three days, and cause maximum humiliation and agony, those b-stards might have thought it all to be worthwhile.
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Ther is a contradiction in the bible of whether crucifixion was on a cross or a tree.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
oldbadger said:
Yeah......No probs...... It's mentioned in some of my HJ books.
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Thanks for the quote. What does this suggest to you about the narrative found in Mark 15?

oldbadger said:
Surprised at you.... not knowing about this.
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And I'm surprised that you find the references worthy of comment. I'm trying to determine if you honestly believe that you're doing much beyond muddying the waters with idle speculation.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
disciple said:
Your analogy is wrong. 'Sacrifice' analogy would mean that you dropped the hat and left it there.
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No. The sacrifice is analogous to dropping the hat, period. Or even lending my hat.


To make it even simpler..

When an investor invests into a company, they sacrifice out of their own resources. Even when there is a return from that sacrifice, the original circumstance is still considered to be sacrificed for that of the new circumstance.



--I understand you are firm in the idea that sacrifice is permanent, but it is nowhere in any definition. Sacrifices, more often than not, involve an exchange. Jesus exchanged several things at death; for example, he is no longer physically on the Earth. Obviously, Jesus' physical nature was sacrificed and taken from Earth-- regardless of whether Jesus received a greater return from his initial investment.
 
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