Is the God of the Bible a Saddist?

[JustWondering]

Since God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfect to boot it stands to reason he could create a world without suffering. Yet he created a world filled to the brim with death and suffering. He also created Hell, a place of eternal torment and suffering. If God is not Saddistic why would he create a place like Hell?

 

[Karl R]

Since God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfect to boot it stands to reason he could create a world without suffering.

You're wondering why god doesn't make the world a happier place for everyone (to rephrase it slightly).

Think of god as similar to a parent. Parents want their children to be happy, right? And what makes children happy? Toys and candy! Therefore, a good parent should give their child all the toys and candy they want ... right?

Obviously, if a parent raises their child like that, their child with be sick and spoiled rotten. So the best option for the child might not be the option the child wants the most.

Heck, parents even subject their kids to quite a bit of suffering (school, dental appointments, braces), but in the long run it works out best for the kids.

And even once you become an adult, the unpleasant things you go through are still some of the experiences that lead to the most personal growth.

He also created Hell, a place of eternal torment and suffering. If God is not Saddistic why would he create a place like Hell?

Everybody is so certain what heaven and hell are like, but I have not met one person who has actually been there and come back to verify it. (Okay, so Jesus did it, but he didn't exactly write Fodor's Guide to the Afterlife to tell us what we're in for.)

I'm not going to make assumptions about the nature of god based on uncorroborated accounts of what the afterlife might be like.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Need God be omnipotent and omniscient?

 

[zombieharlot]

God created the world, but did he create the suffering in it? God created hell, but does anyone have to go there?

 

[McBell]

You're wondering why god doesn't make the world a happier place for everyone (to rephrase it slightly).

Think of god as similar to a parent. Parents want their children to be happy, right? And what makes children happy? Toys and candy! Therefore, a good parent should give their child all the toys and candy they want ... right?

Obviously, if a parent raises their child like that, their child with be sick and spoiled rotten. So the best option for the child might not be the option the child wants the most.

Heck, parents even subject their kids to quite a bit of suffering (school, dental appointments, braces), but in the long run it works out best for the kids.

And even once you become an adult, the unpleasant things you go through are still some of the experiences that lead to the most personal growth.

Well gee.
If I were all powerful I would be able to take care of all the problems that arose from "spoiling" my kids.
Which makes your argument here rather pointless.
We parents are not all powerful.

Need God be omnipotent and omniscient?

I do not believe that ANY god is all powerful or all knowing or any of the other 'omni's that are attached to him.

God created the world, but did he create the suffering in it? God created hell, but does anyone have to go there?

Depends upon which portrait of God you are talking about.

 

[zombieharlot]

Depends upon which portrait of God you are talking about.

Well, God is just God and if there are many portraits, it's only because people are looking at the same things, but through different eyes. My questions exist to see how JustWondering looks at God.

 

[Father Heathen]

God created the world, but did he create the suffering in it?

Could it really have existed otherwise? Did he not decide upon and create the penalty for eating a fruit?

God created hell, but does anyone have to go there?

Yes. By having created it at all, God pretty much guaranteed people would end up in it, especially with the all countless petty and minute things that would cause one to be cast into it. The way the very the idea of "salvation" is set up pretty much guarantees the vast majority of souls will end up in "hell". God would have to be rather sadistic and infantile to even see a need to create such a thing. Also, the fact that God is all knowing = predestination.

 

[zombieharlot]

Could it really have existed otherwise? Did he not decide upon and create the penalty for eating a fruit?

What's the penalty?

Yes. By having created it at all pretty much guaranteed people who end up in it, especially with the all countless petty and minute things that would cause one to be cast into it. God would have to be rather sadistic and infantile to even see a need to create such a thing.

Countless petty and minute things don't make you go to hell. Countless horrible and blatantly destructive things don't even make you go to hell. The term "hidden in Christ" explains that. If you allow yourself to be under grace, no wrong doing of yours is counted against you.

 

[JustWondering]

I apologize. I should have mentioned in my OP that I am refering to the God of the Christian Bible. The God of the Bible created everything (according to the Bible anyway). Which means that God created living things to experience pain and suffering. God created living things to slowly age, wither and die. What possible purpose does it serve to make us suffer? Is the reason we were made to suffer is because God is a saddist? If Humans are sinners thats because thats the way God made us to be. It is like God hating the color green and then creating people with green skin and then punishing them for it. The only rational reason I can come up with to explain God's behavior is that he is a saddist.

 

[zombieharlot]

I apologize. I should have mentioned in my OP that I am refering to the God of the Christian Bible. The God of the Bible created everything (according to the Bible anyway). Which means that God created living things to experience pain and suffering. God created living things to slowly age, wither and die. What possible purpose does it serve to make us suffer? Is the reason we were made to suffer is because God is a saddist? If Humans are sinners thats because thats the way God made us to be. It is like God hating the color green and then creating people with green skin and then punishing them for it. The only rational reason I can come up with to explain God's behavior is that he is a saddist.

God simply gives us options. A parent tells a child, if you touch the stove while I'm cooking, you'll get burned. So don't touch the stove and go play. The child then touches the stove and gets burned. Did the parent create a disobedient child by giving the child options - one good option and one bad option?

 

[JustWondering]

God simply gives us options. A parent tells a child, if you touch the stove while I'm cooking, you'll get burned. So don't touch the stove and go play. The child then touches the stove and gets burned. Did the parent create a disobedient child by giving the child options - one good option and one bad option?

Your response does not answer my question. What is the purpose of making us suffer? Why do children die of starvation or because of horrible diseases? Is that all part of Gods "master plan"?

 

[Jose Fly]

Anything but a very liberal reading of the Bible shows its god to be the worst terrorist in the universe....on many levels.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The god character of the bible most certainly displays a number of pathologies including narcissism, sociopathy, as well as borderline personality disorder, among others.

Additionally, taken as a whole, the bible describes god as the type of evil villain rarely encountered outside a work of fiction.

 

[zombieharlot]

Your response does not answer my question. What is the purpose of making us suffer? Why do children die of starvation or because of horrible diseases? Is that all part of Gods "master plan"?

Did the parent make the child suffer? Or did the child choose to touch the stove and bring about the suffering on their own accord?

 

[JustWondering]

Did the parent make the child suffer? Or did the child choose to touch the stove and bring about the suffering on their own accord?

Does a loving parent torture their child for all eternity if they misbehave?

 

[Jose Fly]

Trying to compare the reationship of parent-child to Christian god-humans is a false analogy.

A (good) parent punishes their child to teach a lesson, so the child won't repeat the behavior. The same cannot be said of Biblegod and hell. The victim is already dead and sentenced to an eternity of torture. Thus, any subsequent learning or behavior modification is impossible.

 

[Storm]

Is the God of the Bible a Saddist?

No, He's just misunderstood (especially by His purported followers). Poor thing....

 

[zombieharlot]

Does a loving parent torture their child for all eternity if they misbehave?

As I said before to FH, our behavior doesn't determine whether we go to hell or not as long as we are under grace.

Trying to compare the reationship of parent-child to Christian god-humans is a false analogy.

A (good) parent punishes their child to teach a lesson, so the child won't repeat the behavior. The same cannot be said of Biblegod and hell. The victim is already dead and sentenced to an eternity of torture. Thus, any subsequent learning or behavior modification is impossible.

Didn't Jesus himself use a parent - child analogy with the story of the prodigal's son?

People on earth suffer because of reaping and sowing. It's a cycle we ourselves create.
A parent tells their adult son that they will be moving to Japan in three months and the son wanders off and disappears. Is it the parent's fault that the son missed the plane?
In the days of Noah, did everyone not have a choice to get on the boat before it started raining?

 

[JustWondering]

As I said before to FH, our behavior doesn't determine whether we go to hell or not as long as we are under grace.

What purpose does Hell serve?

Didn't Jesus himself use a parent - child analogy with the story of the prodigal's son?

Does a loving parent torture their child?

People on earth suffer because of reaping and sowing. It's a cycle we ourselves create.

So children who died horrible deaths had it coming?

A parent tells their adult son that they will be moving to Japan in three months and the son wanders off and disappears. Is it the parent's fault that the son missed the plane?

I fail to see what this has to do with God inflicting Humanity with agonizing pain and suffering.

In the days of Noah, did everyone not have a choice to get on the boat before it started raining?

That's right, Noah and his family got to live because they obeyed God like the good mindless, robots God wants all of us to be.

 

[Jose Fly]

Didn't Jesus himself use a parent - child analogy with the story of the prodigal's son?

And? Does that mean my grounding my daughter to teach a lesson is analogous to Biblegod casting souls into a lake of fire where they'll be tortured for all of eternity?

People on earth suffer because of reaping and sowing. It's a cycle we ourselves create.

Ah, so in your view the people who get diseases and afflictions are getting what they deserve. Nice.

A parent tells their adult son that they will be moving to Japan in three months and the son wanders off and disappears. Is it the parent's fault that the son missed the plane?

??????????

In the days of Noah, did everyone not have a choice to get on the boat before it started raining?

No, they didn't. According to the story, Biblegod made it very clear that only Noah and his immediate family were to go on the ark.