Is the lack of faith of Atheists due to theists' failure to support their claims?

[gnostic]

That is the wisdom behind non-duality...concepts are only representations of reality...they are not real...except of course as symbolic mental constructs...the real is forever on the other side.. For that reason Jesus taught..."unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." That is what meditation practice to still the mind is all about....realize reality directly non-conceptually.with the same innocence we once exhibited as children...but with one difference...now with self realization.....

Or the innocence provide no "realisation", whether it be self or otherwise.

When I was younger, when I first read the bible, I actually wanted to believe that there was a heaven and a god. And I wanted the afterlife that the gospel promised.

But the older I got, I came to the realisation that this afterlife and heaven is nothing more than carrot, always out of reach, giving others false hope.

Resurrection and a place in heaven lost the shine to me, and the more read the bible, the more I knew that I didn't want to live forever because it would be a meaningless life...or afterlife.

And if God is anything like the God of JOB (book), then I don't think could follow such a petty god, who sounds more like a human tyrant, let alone forever in his presence.

Does that mean you I want to go to hell?

No. I want no part of heaven or hell; I want no part of eternal reward or punishment. To me, one lifetime is enough for me. I'd prefer to not exist at all, after I die...no spirit, no soul.

 

[Curious George]

Then they see ALL as immortal and infallible. Father, mother, sister, brother, doctor, nurse, dog, cat.

I never said they weren't polytheist.

 

[gnostic]

Then they see ALL as immortal and infallible. Father, mother, sister, brother, doctor, nurse, dog, cat.

Yes, dog, of course! *light bulb lit up*

After all, a dog is anagram for "god".

 

[Etritonakin]

Yep.


....at least partly. Religion often gives God a bad name.
That's not to say there are no valid arguments to be made, but it's not wrong to call bs when something is actually bs.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think perhaps many atheists are lapsed theists..who dropped out because their conceptual expectations based on a less than deep understanding of how to realize their divine birthright were not met. As Jesus explained....the correct path is very difficult...and very few are actually destined to succeed... If the seed when sown does not take root...it will not grow properly...

Interesting. It is possible, I suppose. I wonder how many of those I might have perhaps met. I would like to think very few or none.

Instead, it seems to me that many supposed theists are not even given much opportunity to consider what theism is supposed to be, or simply go to the motions out of social pressure.

I myself went through Eucharisty without ever even considering theism or christianity, neither of which will ever be compatible with me.

 

[viole]

I think perhaps many atheists are lapsed theists..who dropped out because their conceptual expectations based on a less than deep understanding of how to realize their divine birthright were not met. As Jesus explained....the correct path is very difficult...and very few are actually destined to succeed... If the seed when sown does not take root...it will not grow properly...

But if Jesus said that, then it is not only atheists that are involved. Many theists do not recognize any divinity in Jesus, so their tree did not grow properly, either, apparently.
Is that maybe because most Muslins (for instance) are lapsed Christians? Or are most Christians lapsed Muslims? How do we know who is lapsed?

No. To say that most atheists are lapsed theists because of a failure of recognizing their divine birthright is absurd. You must first believe that there is such thing as a divine birthright before
claiming dropped from that.

Ciao

- viole

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I never said they weren't polytheist.

I'm struggling to see the point of this line of thought. Are you trying to suggest that we are all born polytheists, and then reject each 'God' in turn as we find them mundane in nature?

 

[George-ananda]

Can you provide verifiable proof of this evidence for someone else who would be willing to accept it? For example, if you are Christian, can you provide definitive proof of the divinity of Christ?

I don't think anyone should claim 'verifiable definitive proof' including me. I only present evidence and argumentation that the position I hold is the most supported and reasonable position out there. BTW, I'm not Christian but Hindu/Advaita.

 

[Curious George]

I'm struggling to see the point of this line of thought. Are you trying to suggest that we are all born polytheists, and then reject each 'God' in turn as we find them mundane in nature?

Are you really struggling? Yes, I guess that is what I am suggesting. I am following a line of logic to its conclusion.

 

[outhouse]

I am following a line of logic to its conclusion.

The problem is, maybe only you see the logic. Because many of us now, do not.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No. To say that most atheists are lapsed theists because of a failure of recognizing their divine birthright is absurd. You must first believe that there is such thing as a divine birthright before claiming dropped from that.

Ciao

- viole

I suggested perhaps many...not most....and is not the failure to recognize one's divine birthright the same as not believing there is such a thing as divine birthright?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Interesting. It is possible, I suppose. I wonder how many of those I might have perhaps met. I would like to think very few or none.

Instead, it seems to me that many supposed theists are not even given much opportunity to consider what theism is supposed to be, or simply go to the motions out of social pressure.

I myself went through Eucharisty without ever even considering theism or christianity, neither of which will ever be compatible with me.

Never say never....eternity is a long time...

 

[JoStories]

I don't think anyone should claim 'verifiable definitive proof' including me. I only present evidence and argumentation that the position I hold is the most supported and reasonable position out there. BTW, I'm not Christian but Hindu/Advaita.

Well then, I completely agree George. I certainly can't provide proof either, of any kind. And I did not know you were Hindu. Mea Culpa.

 

[JoStories]

Do you presume, then, that we each are not capable of being convinced of any position (i.e. that we all think differently enough)?

I don't think I could say that Willamena. I think, given a thoroughly prepared and cogent argument, I might be persuaded. Might be I say. My mentor, the one I mentioned, did at times convince me of some of his neuronal theories but I still maintained that people need spirituality in their lives, in some cases. He, of course, vehemently disagreed and rather took a hard nosed approach, a kind of line in the sand type of thinking. I am more open minded so I could be.

 

[Curious George]

The problem is, maybe only you see the logic. Because many of us now, do not.

I find that noteworthy.

 

[Willamena]

To a baby the person is a mother as a child has no knowledge of the mythological concepts that describe all deities to date. It seems your imposing your views into the child's mind. Even if they had the ability a child does not make up mythology on the fly.

A child doesn't have to understand mythological thinking to be it.

 

[viole]

I suggested perhaps many...not most....and is not the failure to recognize one's divine birthright the same as not believing there is such a thing as divine birthright?

Yes, we are atheists. We do not believe on anything with the attribute "divine" attached to it. By definition.

I also fail to believe that my birthright originates from blue fairies. Is that bad?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Willamena]

You still haven't answer my question, George.

Can you really compare a mother to a god? And in what way is a mother "immortal" or "infallible"?

Those are your words for a god, isn't it?

I can.

My experience of my mother was just as George described it. I could not live without her, she was the ground of my being. She existed before me, and when I got older and learned about death, the thought that she might perish before me was devastating.

I think it just depends on what you consider "god" to be.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Are you really struggling?

I am. I am not prone to hyperbole.

Yes, I guess that is what I am suggesting. I am following a line of logic to its conclusion.

Sure, but at some point the woods get lost for the trees. Are lion cubs theists now?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

A child doesn't have to understand mythological thinking to be it.

To be clear, you think babies are polytheists? Or are you being contrary...